DiMarzio Forum
DimarzioForum.Com => The Pickup Place => Topic started by: RayBarbeeMusic on May 19, 2015, 07:37:58 PM
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I posted this on the SD forum but it bears repeating here. It would be worth trying with a lot of DiMarzios since they have a lot of models with dual adjustable poles:
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I've been on a quest for years to come up with a neck humbucker that wasn't muddy/boomy, and that was articulate and clear for fast picking.
I experimented with variations on 40 ga wire winds, Firebirds hidden under full sized covers, minis hidden under full sized covers, etc. The firebirds do really well, but they seem to have an output limitation. No matter what magnet/wire you use or how you wind them, they don't seem to ever exceed a 'hot single-coil' level of output. In some things that works fine, but with a hotter bridge humbucker there is just too much difference. Adding more wire just makes them darker, using thinner wire shifts the tone a little but that's it, using ceramic makes them a tad brighter but not any louder.
Last night I came up with the closest thing I've heard yet. I started by swapping out a bunch of things through the neck of a Les Paul. That is probably the most demanding application for this, as the neck position on a Les Paul can turn even the brightest/tightest humbucker into a mud ball. After going through about 6 other things, I popped a Full Shred neck in there, which is about the best commercially available solution I've found for a lot of guitars. In the LP, it sounded great up high, but the low strings below about the 7th fret were just muddy and inarticulate.
So I thought about that for a minute, and though that what I really want is that type of high string tone but with a more single-coil response on the low strings. So I yanked the neck side coil pole pieces on ONLY the bottom three strings. That improved it a lot, but then of course the high strings didn't balance with the low strings. I tilted it so that the pickup was farther away on the high strings, then I raised pole pieces on the bridge side coil on each string until I got a balanced output on each string.
Result? AWESOME. That great articulate, chewy/liquid but still fat FSN high string sound is there, and there is no boom/mud at all in the bass. It doesn't thwack like a single coil on the low notes, but it does have single coil articulation when I play down low and balances very well. It reminded me quite a bit of early Yngwie tone he got with the HS-3 necks in that it was fat but very responsive and liquid at the same time. My only complaint is that it could be a little brighter/thwackier like a real single on the low strings, but it is a massive improvement over any other full sized bucker application I've tried, and they are legion.
Of course that can only be done on a bucker with two rows of adjustable screws, unless you want to tap out slugs, but I like the result so much I don't see a reason why I won't do that from now on.
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Thanks Ray for sharing this. I need to try this sometime soon.
Cheers Stephan
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I tried one today in "Z coil" mode, i.e. 3 screws removed on neck coil low strings, 3 screws removed bridge coil high strings. The difference was subtle, a little brighter/quieter on the high notes. Overall I think I like the feel of the original 3/4 bucker better, but YMMV, its worth a try.
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in last few weeks, I wanted to try something 'new'.
so I ended up bid and won a Bill Lawrence pickup (the real one, Wilde's Bill).
and surprisingly, it's the best solution for me in regards of muddy neck pickup on 24.75" scale with 22 frets guitar.
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in last few weeks, I wanted to try something 'new'.
so I ended up bid and won a Bill Lawrence pickup (the real one, Wilde's Bill).
and surprisingly, it's the best solution for me in regards of muddy neck pickup on 24.75" scale with 22 frets guitar.
Which Bill Lawrence pickup? There are quite many (L-500, L-90, L-600, L-610), and each in different inductance values. For neck pickups I have tried the L-500R, the L-500C and the L-90 2H. I liked the L-500R. It still has a boomy low end which is partly due to the huge output this pickup has. The L-500C is better in that regard. I was not impressed at all by the L-90. The real issue with the L-500 in the neck spot is that most pickup cavities are to shallow for it to fit.
Cheers Stephan
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Thanks, Ray! The Screamin' Demon is another pickup that works great in the neck (for brighter guitars than LPs maybe), and it's got two rows of different screws. The real pandora's box would be with dimarzios, with the different coils in the same pickup, flipping, removing the screws on a side that's half-aired or not, etc. So many possibilities.
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Which Bill Lawrence pickup? There are quite many (L-500, L-90, L-600, L-610), and each in different inductance values. For neck pickups I have tried the L-500R, the L-500C and the L-90 2H. I liked the L-500R. It still has a boomy low end which is partly due to the huge output this pickup has. The L-500C is better in that regard. I was not impressed at all by the L-90. The real issue with the L-500 in the neck spot is that most pickup cavities are to shallow for it to fit.
Cheers Stephan
I got older L450, which now replaced by L600 I believe.
the inductance sticker has already gone, but from my research, I believe it's 2.4H which a little bit lower from standard neck humbucker 3.6H.
interested to try the L500, I heard good samples of L500R with Q-filter reducing the output, perhaps it could be solution for your boomy low end problem.
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One could try removing all the screw polepieces and see if that works
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I removed the screws for the 4th, 5th and 6th strings on the neck pickup. This works indeed as Ray described. I then replaced the screw for the 4th string since the 4th string is usually the one with the weakest output, and I liked that even better. I had no problem in getting a good string to string balance, and the screw coil still works well when used in split mode. Great mod.
Once again many thanks to Ray for posting this.
Cheers Stephan
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And BTW it is a humbucker with slugs in the bridge side coil I tried it.
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in last few weeks, I wanted to try something 'new'.
so I ended up bid and won a Bill Lawrence pickup (the real one, Wilde's Bill).
and surprisingly, it's the best solution for me in regards of muddy neck pickup on 24.75" scale with 22 frets guitar.
Which Bill Lawrence pickup? There are quite many (L-500, L-90, L-600, L-610), and each in different inductance values. For neck pickups I have tried the L-500R, the L-500C and the L-90 2H. I liked the L-500R. It still has a boomy low end which is partly due to the huge output this pickup has. The L-500C is better in that regard. I was not impressed at all by the L-90. The real issue with the L-500 in the neck spot is that most pickup cavities are to shallow for it to fit.
Cheers Stephan
Also tried the L500C. Albeit, I want paying attention and got the un-shielded version, which doesn't work out very well with the electrical situation I have going on. haha! There are some definite benefits, but I'm not 100% certain if it's what I will stick with tonally.
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I have an original (1970's) L-500 in my Tele neck position and it's outstanding. Nice crystal clear highs and smooth, clear lows when dialed down. On the tone pot, I put a .046 cap and I can go full dark and not get muddy.
When I built up my Strat HH, I put an L-500R in the neck. It has slightly different but still clean tone at both ends of the tone control. I put a .046 cap on the pot but a .033 is all I really need since it does get darker than I ever like. I suppose I'll replace that one of these days.
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Thanks, Ray! The Screamin' Demon is another pickup that works great in the neck (for brighter guitars than LPs maybe), and it's got two rows of different screws.
+1!
Put a Demon in the neck of my ESP Horizon NT-II. Lovely open sound; and when split, it's one of most beautiful bright singlecoil sounds with character.
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I then replaced the screw for the 4th string since the 4th string is usually the one with the weakest output, and I liked that even better.
I tried the trick above with a normal slug/screw humbucker, and I found that I liked it with the D string screw still in as well since I couldn't adjust the slugs (obviously). I had to tilt it as noted above and adjust the screws to balance outputs. I don't think it worked quite as well as with double screw coils, but surprisingly well anyway.
I tried the screamin demon in the neck and even with double hex coils replacing the normal screws on the one coil, I found it far too dark for my tastes. If you like the Liquifier or Air Norton type sound it might work for you though.
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I then replaced the screw for the 4th string since the 4th string is usually the one with the weakest output, and I liked that even better.
I tried the trick above with a normal slug/screw humbucker, and I found that I liked it with the D string screw still in as well since I couldn't adjust the slugs (obviously). I had to tilt it as noted above and adjust the screws to balance outputs. I don't think it worked quite as well as with double screw coils, but surprisingly well anyway.
Meanwhile I tried it with two other humbuckers in the neck and found that not every humbucker reacts in the same way - with two it worked really well and with the third I did not notice much of a difference - maybe because that one had a cover - I don't know.
I tried the screamin demon in the neck and even with double hex coils replacing the normal screws on the one coil, I found it far too dark for my tastes. If you like the Liquifier or Air Norton type sound it might work for you though.
I think Amplifuzz and Speeddemon used the Demon in the neck. I never have - I have a Trembucker model and use it in the bridge position of one strat with 250k volume and tone pots. It works fine there but seems a little outclassed by the Area 67 in the neck - but I will open a separate thread to discuss that.
Cheers Stephan
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I would not have any concern with that.
Keep in mind though that these mods do not really lower the output of a pickup, and are not intended to. They are intended to reduce the low note boominess.
Cheers Stephan
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Making sure volume and then me are 500k....
I got a bright sound ( 12 hex poles) by lowering the pickup then lower all 12 poles flush to the bobbin, then raise poles in a wide range humbucker pattern:
North coil raise 3 bass hex poles 1.5 full turns
South coil raise 3 treble screws 1.5 turns - that was very successful.
What I found more successful was this :
Another method was to lower the pickup to 3mm below the string fretted at top fret.
Then for each string raise each pole so it sits 2mm away from the strings and therefore follows the radius. You can do this on the north coil, the south coil, both coils or 3 bass on north, 3 trebles on south.
Another successful method was to make all the poles flush then raise them all 1/2 a turn, then raise the basses another full turn and set the pickup height 3 mm below the strings on the treble side and 4mm on the bass side
Then tweak from there...
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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You may also wanna try the extra small allen/hex screws. The ones that are practically the same size of the wrench socket.
Theres also a demud mod you can do w/ a resistor or cap... I never tried it because never had the need but seem it would work just fine
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Theres also a demud mod you can do w/ a resistor or cap... I never tried it because never had the need but seem it would work just fine
The one I have read of is a cap in series with the hot lead of the pickup - mostly a 0.01uf or 0.02uf. What that does is create a high pass, i.e. lows are blocked. This works fine on an individual pickup but you can get phase cancellations when you use both pickups in parallel, so it is a compromise, and it is personal preference whether you can/want to live with that. I cannot as it ruins the middle position tone IMHO.
Cheers Stephan
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BTW the neckside screw removal trick also worked well with a TV Jones Classic Neck.
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Surely with all the knowledge here and over at the SD forum that most folks know about fitting a capacitor in line to filter out unwanted low end?
(https://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/muddyneckpickup.jpg)
With a bit of tweaking on the cap, one should be able to clear up most any pickup, most of the time.
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That was the mod I was referring to in reply #20 - just the value of the capacitor is different but that is personal preference anyway.
Cheers Stephan
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Thought I had read the entire thread, but somehow I had missed your #20 post. And yes, it's very much worth trying different values if the .047 doesn't quite do it for you.
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I found a much smaller cap is required. If you put it in parallel with a resistor that works to. The G&L passive bass control is a .0022uf cap across a 1M pot.
But yes, any time you introduce a capacitor to the circuit, you can introduce phase issues, and that can be an issue in parallel.
Overall, I've found that just removing poles works best. Either 3 under the bass on one coil (screws if double screw coil; now I just pop out the slugs on screw/slug pickups) or all 6 on one coil for some pickups (super 2 comes to mind).
Also note this has much less affect on "aired" pickups than non-aired.