DiMarzio Forum

DimarzioForum.Com => The Pickup Place => Topic started by: LoveMyIbanez on January 18, 2023, 02:32:02 AM

Title: Pickup similar to AT-1
Post by: LoveMyIbanez on January 18, 2023, 02:32:02 AM
Hey all. I have an AT-1 in an Ibanez AZ, and I love it! Seriously got me loving bridge pickups again after a long period of dissatisfaction.
I'm putting together a double 'bucker tele build, and I want something similar, but maybe a bit less compressed and ...maybe "nasally" in the mids would be the right word? Something similar, but more "open". Slightly lower output would be OK, but I love how the AT-1 can do everything from blues to Van Halen.

Would the Fortitude be a good option? Not looking for a huge change at all: versatile vintage+ attitude. "Worst"-case, I'll just go for another AT-1.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Pickup similar to AT-1
Post by: gregr on January 18, 2023, 09:02:13 AM
From what I gather the Air Zone seems like a good candidate.
Title: Re: Pickup similar to AT-1
Post by: LoveMyIbanez on January 18, 2023, 05:30:55 PM
From what I gather the Air Zone seems like a good candidate.
Thanks. I think the AZ is a bit darker than the AT-1, if I remember correctly. I definitely don't want to go any darker. Is the AZ more open-sounding and less compressed?
I should have mentioned as well: will be pairing with 36th PAF neck.
Title: Re: Pickup similar to AT-1
Post by: gregr on January 20, 2023, 11:07:06 AM
The AZ is an air bucker, which is supposed to have a wide dynamic range. I don’t have any experience but from what I’ve heard I think you’re right in that it is darker.

This might not be of much use and you might not be interested in chasing Timmons’s tone but he recorded a lot of his material with a Duncan JB, which is a much brighter pickup that also has a prominent midrange relative to many of Duncan’s other models. It doesn’t have the vocal cocked wah sound of many DiMarzios however. I really like the tone of a JB with an A2 magnet. Another option is a Duncan Custom Custom which is a Custom with an A2 magnet. It will cover blues to VH who used one.

But when I think of the AT-1 I think of the big low end and very warm top end. Add the cocked wah tone and dynamics and you have the AZ, though it doesn’t have the same note definition on the upper strings, from what I can tell.

Besides a prominent midrange and an increase of dynamic range I can’t tell what else you’re looking for, to be honest.
Title: Re: Pickup similar to AT-1
Post by: LoveMyIbanez on January 21, 2023, 05:03:15 AM
Thanks for your input Gregr. To be honest, I've never once heard a Duncan bridge pickup that I liked. I found them all to be way too shrill (except for maybe the Invader or Custom Custom). I think most Duncans sound better with at least one 250k pot, which is why I initially tried the AT-1 (JB with 250k pot description).

I like Andy Timmon's tone, but I dial it in a bit different: getting a pretty classic almost LP tones out of a bright-sounding basswood superstrat. It might be a little dark and bassy, but I like it enough that I'll probably just buy another. I've been really curious about the Fortitude, as it's often described as a chunkier, less-bright 36th PAF, but pretty much every review I've seen of it, they play Gojira-like metal chugging riffs.  ;D
Title: Re: Pickup similar to AT-1
Post by: gregr on January 21, 2023, 09:38:38 AM
Seeing that my favorite pickup is the Screamin’ Demon and that I prefer Duncan pickups in the bridge in general, we have entirely different tastes.

I have in the past recommended the Transition Neck as a bridge pickup and was told it worked very well. This was in an LTD single-cut, if I remember correctly.

The 36th Neck really impressed me. If I were going to do another A5 PAF set it would be a Duncan 59 in the bridge and the 36th in the neck.

I say go with your gut and try the Fortitude.
Title: Re: Pickup similar to AT-1
Post by: LoveMyIbanez on January 22, 2023, 05:19:27 PM
Thanks Gregr. I actually like how the Screamin' Demon behaves (nice medium-output humbucker), but yeah: too much treble for me without a 250k pot.
I'll give the Fortitude a shot.
Title: Re: Pickup similar to AT-1
Post by: RayBarbeeMusic on January 23, 2023, 03:56:11 PM
36th Anniversary Bridge is what you want. 

Air Zone is actually darker and more compressed.  Screamin Demon is like a strat bridge pickup in the high end and about as far from an AT-1 as you can get and still be a humbucker.
Title: Re: Pickup similar to AT-1
Post by: darkbluemurder on January 27, 2023, 03:45:46 AM
Very interesting discussion. I am on the fence with my AT-1 in the double hum tele  I have  -  one  day I think it is fine and the next I think it's lacking bite. I considered the Air Zone but now it's out since I also don't want darker and/or more compressed.

I probably will try the spare F-spaced Air Norton which is currently not doing anything. I also have a trembucker spaced Duncan Custom 5 that I could try as well. The only thing that is shying me away is that the pickup is mounted in the bridge so that I have to remove the bridge to change the pickup - real work :( and more work if I don't like it so I would definitely like to nail that one on the first try. Unfortunately I don't have a 36th to try.

Cheers Stephan

EDIT for a typo.
Title: Re: Pickup similar to AT-1
Post by: gregr on January 27, 2023, 12:34:38 PM
I hear you on all the extra work. Do you have another similar guitar that you can use as a test-bed?

If so and you’re into magnet swapping try an A2 in that Custom 5. As an interesting exercise you could also try short hex screws and rotate the pickup so that the slugs are closer to the bridge. Try both an A5 and an A2. This is not dissimilar to a Full Shred which is a Custom 5 with two screw coils populated with short hex screws. This pickup is tight and aggressive with bite. While I haven’t done this modification to a Custom, I did do it to a Seymourizer (AKA SH-6N Distortion Neck) with the ceramic magnet swapped out for an A5. It had some nice bite and a fair amount of relative low end that was warm but not muddy. It had a nice vintage PAF thing going good on in parallel mode. The Seymourizer is basically an under-wound Custom (12k of 43GA, the custom being 14k). The Screamin’ Demon is a very under-wound Custom (10k). I can’t speak to the wind patterns, however. The guitar with the modified Seymourizer ended up with a Demon which is *the* pickup for serious bite.

If you haven’t tried it already and go with the Air Norton in the bridge, try an HFH in the neck (assuming the guitar takes a humbucker in the neck, of course).

Anyway, I really learned a lot through experimentation and found it rewarding but I t can be a lot of work. In my case I used a guitar with a Floyd where I could just remove the springs, pull the bridge and put it aside. When I was done I’d put it back together and the guitar will usually remain in tune, lol.
Title: Re: Pickup similar to AT-1
Post by: RayBarbeeMusic on January 27, 2023, 05:55:38 PM
If you've never tried air norton in the bridge, give it a go.  Really nice paf.
Title: Re: Pickup similar to AT-1
Post by: gregr on January 27, 2023, 07:37:52 PM
I bought an inexpensive but good quality guitar just so that I could do that.
Title: Re: Pickup similar to AT-1
Post by: LoveMyIbanez on January 29, 2023, 06:13:56 AM
I heard the AN is quite bright in the bridge in some guitars. It might be a bit thin and bright for my tastes in a tele. I do love it in the Nash Aged Les Paul video on Youtube (paired with a Bluesbucker).
Title: Re: Pickup similar to AT-1
Post by: gregr on January 29, 2023, 07:27:20 PM
I heard the AN is quite bright in the bridge in some guitars. It might be a bit thin and bright for my tastes in a tele. I do love it in the Nash Aged Les Paul video on Youtube (paired with a Bluesbucker).
Thanks for this!

I never knew about combining a spin-o-split with a standard tone control. The Bluesbucker seems like a perfect candidate for that.

I’ve always thought the AN/BB would be a great pairing but opted for the HFH instead. I may need to revisit that.
Title: Re: Pickup similar to AT-1
Post by: darkbluemurder on January 30, 2023, 05:28:10 AM
If you've never tried air norton in the bridge, give it a go.  Really nice paf.

I actually did in several guitars. The only thing is that it may be a bit bright with 500k but I can lower the load until I like it. I 'll give it a shot.

Thanks,
Stephan
Title: Re: Pickup similar to AT-1
Post by: darkbluemurder on January 30, 2023, 05:29:54 AM
If so and you’re into magnet swapping try an A2 in that Custom 5.

Actually,  one of  the C5s I have started its life as a Custom Custom until I replace the A2 with A5 :)

Cheers Stephan
Title: Re: Pickup similar to AT-1
Post by: gregr on January 30, 2023, 10:32:12 AM
The only thing is that it may be a bit bright with 500k but I can lower the load until I like it.

Just roll the tone control back to increase the load (smaller impedance = larger load). Then you have lots of room on the control to turn it up and cut through.

I’ve found that raising the bobbin and lowering the screws makes a world of difference on the Air Norton as well.
Title: Re: Pickup similar to AT-1
Post by: darkbluemurder on February 01, 2023, 11:02:22 AM
That is correct as we have AC signal but the load in that case is only reduced  above the cut-off frequency of the cap - below that the tone pot is isolated from the volume pot. With the large caps like 0.022uf and higher, this is noticeable as the cut-off freq is low. However, I am normally using a cap ten-fold smaller, i.e. 0.0022uf  so the effect is not drastic.

Cheers Stephan
 
Title: Re: Pickup similar to AT-1
Post by: gregr on February 01, 2023, 08:01:53 PM
Makes sense. I prefer 22nF, as I use the tone control to hang back. I find the small tone caps more useful with single coils.

This talk about the AN prompted me to dig out my guitar which also has the HFH in the neck. The guitar has a volume control for each pickup and a master tone control, ‘50s wired. Pots are 500k, 22nF tone cap. I added a 680k shunt resistor to the AN to even out the top end (~6kHz) between the two pickups. This allowed the tone control to work better between all three pickup combinations.
Title: Re: Pickup similar to AT-1
Post by: LoveMyIbanez on February 03, 2023, 07:32:48 AM
That Nash video has such insane tone. I had a Bluesbucker in the neck matched with my AT-1 for a while: they actually pair up very very well, but that particular guitar has a strange midrange whine (I don't know how else to describe it) on the G and B strings that the BB emphasized.
I'd love it if there was a slightly less hot, less middy, brighter AT-1; but Ray might be right about the 36th bridge being the closest option, and likely a better match for the 36th neck I already have than an AN. I think I'll still try the Fortitude, and if it's a miss, exchange it for the regular 36th bridge.
Title: Re: Pickup similar to AT-1
Post by: gregr on February 03, 2023, 10:42:51 AM
For what it’s worth the stuff I wrote about the AN was in response to Stephan’s initial post about it. My contributions were tangential; it didn’t ever seem like it would be a good fit for you.

For whatever reason I didn’t mention the Breed Neck before.

https://web.archive.org/web/20111229072557/http://www.dimarzio.com/pickups/humbuckers/breed-neck

“In the bridge position, it has a very warm, hot PAF® tone — really smooth, with nice harmonics.

Magnet: Alnico 5
Output mV: 325
DC Resistance: 10.39 Kohm
Year of Introduction: 1997

Treble: 6.5
Mid: 7.5
Bass: 7.5”

Back then the AT-1 was spec’ed at 5.5/8/8

Title: Re: Pickup similar to AT-1
Post by: LoveMyIbanez on February 03, 2023, 04:06:57 PM
Yeah, I've heard a lot about the Breed neck used in bridge position on this forum and the Duncan one. Going by numbers alone, it would seem perfect. Man I wish Dimarzio would follow Seymour Duncan and BKP's route and offer recordings of all their pickups playing the same music clips. I really dislike bridge pickups for the most part: I've owned 7 pickups on 5 different guitars, and the AT-1 is the first one that I really enjoy playing on.
Title: Re: Pickup similar to AT-1
Post by: Speeddemon on November 04, 2023, 05:35:22 AM

I'd love it if there was a slightly less hot, less middy, brighter AT-1;
Hmm, that does kinda sound like a Duncan SH-14 Custom 5 would do the trick. It has definitely less mids, more balance than a JB, with bigger AND tighter lows, slightly less output and more high-end than an AT-1.

And the Breed Neck might be a good option too; I had it as a neck pickup in a Charvel So-Cal where it was thick and big, but slightly too jangly up top. Replaced it with an Air Norton.
I have the AT-1 in the bridge of a Les Paul Standard, where it replaced it a regular Norton, as I wanted a tad more beefiness in the lows, but sometimes I miss the wild crunch and harmonics of the Norton...The AT-1 comes close, but it's a bit more behaved and polite.
Title: Re: Pickup similar to AT-1
Post by: darkbluemurder on November 30, 2023, 04:29:04 AM
Coming back to that dual hum tele with the AT-1 in the bridge. I asked the DiMarzio tech support what they would recommend if I wanted something with more bass punch and overall clarity. They suggested the Norton. Found one used, put it in and sure they were right but it slightly overshot to the bright side in that guitar. But then I remembered RayBarbeeMusic's post that the usual load of 500k should be reduced to appr. 380k. That provided the midrange bark that I liked about the AT-1 which the Norton was lacking with the 500k load, but now coupled with the bass punch and the bite of the Norton. About the same output as the AT-1 with a load of 500k. Love the guitar now.

Many thanks to the DiMarzio Tech Support for their assistance and Ray for sharing his knowledge.

Cheers Stephan