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The Pickup Place / Re: neck humbucker (or BB) to complement PAF type bridge HB

« Last post by darkbluemurder on November 21, 2023, 04:09:54 AM »

The classifieds on this Forum are very quiet so I would not place a bet on anything coming up there soon.

In the most popular German classifieds portal, Air Nortons come up consistently (regular and F-spaced, mostly black but sometimes zebra or double cream) but Nortons have become scarce for no obvious reasons.

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The Pickup Place / Re: neck humbucker (or BB) to complement PAF type bridge HB

« Last post by headcrash on November 20, 2023, 02:38:24 PM »

Thanks LPBII an Gregor for the input!

My guitars do have the 5way switches, and the wiring is outer coils in parallel in Pos. 4, and inner coils in parallel in Pos. 2.
With that "reference guitar" these sounds do quack way more, than in my problem child.

I have seen or listened to quite a few Les Paul Standard video clips. The standard pickups are 490R and 498T, which are relatively high output, especially the 498T.
These will have a significantly lower resonant peak than a PAF, which to my ears may contribute quite a lot to that 2..2.5kHz quack. This would also underline what I hear in the reference guitar with its high impedance and lower resonanz peak pickups.
It does not underline, that the problem child does not quick like the reference guitar, when I install its original high impedance lower resonant peak pickups.

I also stumbled upon that fact, that in the middle position, in a Les Paul, the paralleled pickups effectively see the load of the two volume pots paralleled, which results in a 250k load. This might lower the resonant peak a little.
So I just soldered a 470k resistor into that problem child's electronic compartment, so that there is a ~250k load for all sounds except bridge humbucker alone.
Although I have no direkt AB comparison, I think I hear a tiiiiinnyy little more quack, in all positions (except bridge humbucker of course).
But I might be biased.

Still I'm kinda stuck. I'm still waiting for a used Air Norton or Norton to come up in classified ads here, which I assume are lower resonant peak, but still PAF-ey enough...

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The Pickup Place / Re: neck humbucker (or BB) to complement PAF type bridge HB

« Last post by LPBII on November 19, 2023, 10:25:28 PM »

OP: thanks for the clarifications.  If I am understanding correctly the concern is the middle position quack sound of both pickups together. I thought of something but googled the Axis Super Sport first.  The current controls features are a master volume, a master tone, and five way super switch. So that kind of shot down my line of investigation.

My idea was based on that I noticed on Les Pauls with a volume and tone for each pickup that you can enhance the middle position quack sound by tweaking the volume and tone control of each pickup, essentially making the bridge pickup brighter and louder than the neck pickup.  With master volume and master tone I have found it more difficult to get that to happen, although it's more ergonomic while playing live.

Maybe your other guitar gets this naturally or accidently? The ESP Les Paul in the video has a master volume but tone controls for each pickup, and I noticed that the demonstrator adjusted the tone controls when changing from both pickups together to one or the other indvidually.

But it might just be that it's two different guitars and therefore different pieces of wood from different trees.

Does yours have a super switch? I get the idea that it doesn't and your using a three way switch. But of course by splitting you can get more of those types of quack tones more easily.  I built an HH guitar once with a five way super switch. The positions were if I recall correctly:
Bridge Hber, coils in series.
Outside coils of both pickups in parallel. Rather Tele middle position like.
Both full pickups in parallel. Not that much quack with master volume and master tone.
Inside coils of both pickups in parallel. Sorta Strat notch position like.
Neck pickup, coils in series.

Maybe install a concentric tone pot so each pickup can have it's own tone control, if limited to two knobs, and see what happens?



 

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The Pickup Place / Re: neck humbucker (or BB) to complement PAF type bridge HB

« Last post by gregr on November 19, 2023, 12:06:40 PM »

A3 magnets allow you to keep the pickup close to the strings without generating as much bass as an A2. To my ears the quality in the top end is more like an A5 which I believe has a higher Q factor than that of an A2.

I’m contrasting the A3 with the A2 because the A2 is commonly attributed to enhancing the flute-like tone of the neck position. Between the two I prefer the A3 because I can increase the gain in order to get more saturation and retain clarity without the added flub on the low strings. In terms of quack I think it largely depends on treble response which also favors the A3. The treble response also allows the A3 to clean up really well. You still get the flutey character of the neck position, but whether it is flutey enough is subjective.

I’ve also tailored my tone control to keep from gobbling up everything but the bass when it’s rolled all the way back. The top end is softened but still retains note definition but the main cap is still 22nF so there still is some a drop in midrange as opposed to using something like 1nF. This works really well for warm jazz tones; not so much for the woman tone, however.

Regarding the frequency of the resonant peak, please correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t it just depend on the coil?

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The Pickup Place / Re: neck humbucker (or BB) to complement PAF type bridge HB

« Last post by headcrash on November 18, 2023, 04:32:26 PM »

Spend some time experiementing with the height of the 36thN in the neck position.  Also experiement with the height of the screws.  Lowrering the pickup itself and then raising the screws can help getting that bell like tone in the neck position. The 36th N can get bell tones.

I don't know if your guitar is 24 frets or 22 frets, but the position of the screw coil in relation to the scale length matters as far as getting a bell like chime out of the neck position pickup, in my experience.  Ideally, you want one of the coils under where the 24th fret harmonic would be. If its a 24 fret guitar, maybe try putting the pickup in backwards to move the screw coil closer to the bridge after the screws are adjusted higher than the slugs.

With the Duncan Designed, or even the 36thN, you could try an A3 magnet. A3 bar magnets under humbuckers give more chime. I actually learned that from somebody here.  A3 is low output but that's not really a concern in the neck position. Just adjust height to balance the bridge position, and then tweak the screw adjustement.

Did you try a BB? The BB in the neck with a Tone Zone in the bridge really worked for me on a bright superstrat. I think the screw coil is the  active coil on it. Be aware that the BB plays like it has more output than listed, at least in my experience. In parallel, it can sound almost Fender SC like.

I also built a mahogany guitar for somebody a few years ago and used the 36th N in the bridge with an Air Classic N in the neck. I was surpized how chimey the neck postion sounded. That set was perfect for that guitar

Thanks for your input!

These guitars have their pickups mounted directly to the wood, so experimenting with height is way more difficult and only possible with some restraints.
I did put some washers to get the PAF-ey pickups closer to the strings, which would push the mids a little (apart from raising the level...). But the quack just does not happen.

I figured that the frequency of the quacky ü-vowel should be somewhere around 2kHz ...2.5kHz.
So SC chime is not what I'm after and is not what I hear from that link I posted.
I think it depends from the resonant peaks of the pickups to some extent. For most SC's that peak should be in the 3kHz to 3.5kHz area.

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The Pickup Place / Re: Mellowing out Air Norton neck in Charvel So-Cal?

« Last post by gregr on November 18, 2023, 10:47:20 AM »

FWIW, the Air Norton wasn’t necessarily intended to be a neck pickup. Rather, it became popular to use in the neck position after a certain someone paired it with a Steve’s Special.

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The Pickup Place / Re: Mellowing out Air Norton neck in Charvel So-Cal?

« Last post by Speeddemon on November 18, 2023, 09:45:27 AM »

@Schneidas,
I made sure of flipping it in the 'right' or darker direction; screw poles towards the neck.

In two other, warmer sounding guitars loaded with Air Nortons in their neck positions, I purposely put the screw poles towards the bridge, just like a bridge pickup.
I also found it made quite a noticable difference.

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The Pickup Place / Re: Mellowing out Air Norton neck in Charvel So-Cal?

« Last post by Schneidas on November 17, 2023, 09:39:00 AM »

Funny enough, back then I found that flipping it brought it from "well, I guess it sounds ok" to "ok, now we're talking!" territory!

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The Pickup Place / Re: Air Norton Bridge Position

« Last post by gregr on November 16, 2023, 10:04:26 AM »

With the HSS I would have to flip the magnet to use the bridge coil in split mode and be humcancelling with the middle, and I am not looking forward to doing that.

If the singles use alnico rods then instead you can use a neodymium magnet to reverse their polarity.

While he used two cylindrical magnets I successfully used a pair of neo bar magnets on both alnico slugs to reverse their polarity as well as recharge bar magnets. I’m certain a single neo bar magnet will work as well. Just be sure to check the orientation of the magnet field emanating from the magnets.

https://youtu.be/Ig-t5wx3iyw?si=-fBG6Ydo-QqxMExw

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The Pickup Place / Re: Air Norton Bridge Position

« Last post by headcrash on November 16, 2023, 05:15:50 AM »

I have done maybe a year ago and there was something I didn't like, think it was something with the highs.
Also I think I was missing some of the high mids of the stock EvH custom DiMarzios.

I guess I'd see things a little differently now, because since a few months I am really, really digging a more PAF-ish output: I got a VHPAF, put it into one of my EBMM Axis Sports (bridge position, that is), and it is killer.

Having a PAF 36th DP103 there in the neck ATM, I could imagine an AN bridge could cure the, or some of the, lack of bass when switching from neck to bridge.

What I especially like with the VHPAF is the punch when riffing hard. I mostly play Fryette clones, and I am all about dry, stiff, punchy, jumps-outta-the-cab-at-you drop D chugs.

While I still like the stock EvH custom DiMarzios, these do compress, I can clearly feel that there is some give with my right hand. The VHPAF translates my right hand movements more accurately, if you will.
 
I wonder how the AN compares to the PAF 36th bridge in terms of  compression (considering VHPAF and 36th bridge feel quite the same).