Patent numbers gone...

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Offline sveto

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Patent numbers gone...
« on: March 23, 2021, 04:34:12 PM »
I wonder why DiMarzio removed the patent numbers from their website? It was a perfect technical resource, so that i could always see what pickups have Dual Resonance, VV or Airbucker Design, and have a ballpark idea if they will work with my rig.

Does anyone know where i could find this detailed technical information these days? For instance i would love to know what patent numbers the Dreamcatcher and Rainmaker have... I tried in the DiMarzio catalogue PDF, but it's omitted there as well.

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Offline darkbluemurder

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Re: Patent numbers gone...
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2021, 04:07:20 AM »
Indeed it is no longer published. For older designs you can still get the information from older catalogs. As to why - I guess they don't want to freely give away their intellectual property, which would be absolutely legitimate.

Cheers Stephan
Area 67, Area 58, Area 61, VV Pro 54, Injectors, VV HB2, Virtual Solo, SDS-1, Area T, Area Hot T, Area T 615, Virtual Hot T, Chopper T, Bluesbucker, Breed set, Air Norton, Super Distortion, DLX+, DLX-90, DP240, DP198, DP168, VHPAF, AT-1, Norton

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Offline sveto

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Re: Patent numbers gone...
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2021, 04:09:59 PM »
Quote
freely give away their intellectual property

They never did that, so i don't understand what you mean. If someone wants to steal their property they would open up a pickup and copy it.

A normal user just wants to know how a pickup will sound. I know that Dual Resonance will give me more harmonics, but can sound buzzier than a non-Dual Resonance humbucker. I know that an Airbucker will have a subdued attack feel (i hate that), but you don't hear it when you listen to a recording. And so on.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2021, 09:19:55 PM by sveto »

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Offline darkbluemurder

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Re: Patent numbers gone...
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2021, 04:28:31 AM »
Quote
freely give away their intellectual property

They never did that, so i don't understand what you mean. If someone wants to steal their property they would open up a pickup and copy it.

A normal user just wants to know how a pickup will sound. I know that Dual Resonance will give me more harmonics, but can sound buzzier than a non-Dual Resonance humbucker. I know that an Airbucker will have a subdued attack feel (i hate that), but you don't hear it when you listen to a recording. And so on.

That's correct - a "normal" user would certainly not dissect a pickup as (a) that would destroy it and (b) such user would not be able to make any use of the findings anyway. What I meant was that sometimes even a bit of information allows the competition to draw clues as to what they are doing, so I can understand why they would not give away such clues.

Yet I agree with you that offering the patent numbers (or even include the technology in the description) would help the user to choose a pickup - for the exact reasons you stated.
 
Cheers Stephan
Area 67, Area 58, Area 61, VV Pro 54, Injectors, VV HB2, Virtual Solo, SDS-1, Area T, Area Hot T, Area T 615, Virtual Hot T, Chopper T, Bluesbucker, Breed set, Air Norton, Super Distortion, DLX+, DLX-90, DP240, DP198, DP168, VHPAF, AT-1, Norton

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Offline RayBarbeeMusic

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Re: Patent numbers gone...
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2021, 03:38:29 PM »
Might be the patents have expired as well.

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Offline HeyNorton!

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Re: Patent numbers gone...
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2021, 10:11:57 PM »
Google dimarzio patents or patent numbers.

Look up said numbers

Read all about the technology behind them. There are even diagrams!

Seriously though, I don't there is anything sinister going on there. 

 

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Offline sveto

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Re: Patent numbers gone...
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2021, 03:12:21 PM »
I'm not interested in the patents. I want to know what tech some of the newer humbuckers use. For example, does the Gravity Storm bridge use Airbucker tech, or is it only the neck version? Does the Dreamcatcher 7 use Dual Resonance tech or not? Etc.

What do the Utopia humbuckers use? Since there aren't many good audio samples available yet, the patent numbers could help having a ballpark idea of how they will sound.

Where could i find this info? It used to be available at DiMarzio's website and in the DiMarzio catalog.

Isn't it better to know what humbucker will *not* work with my own rig (based on experience), instead of ordering a pickup and then returning it? DiMarzio probably doesn't want to "confuse" consumers with too much information (LOL on that), but IMO they do themselves and their customers a disservice. Unless they sell more stuff, *because* customers can't make the right decision. Food for thought.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2021, 03:20:40 PM by sveto »

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Offline darkbluemurder

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Re: Patent numbers gone...
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2021, 02:40:05 AM »
but IMO they do themselves and their customers a disservice. Unless they sell more stuff, *because* customers can't make the right decision.

I think we both agree that such strategy would only work as a short term goal if at all. Mid to long term I would fear the risk of losing the customer because I always have to take into the account that the customer would not blame himself for a wrong/uninformed choice or blame the manufacturer for not providing enough information but consider the pickups bad and never buy another and - even worse - tell others about how bad the pickups are. And in the days of internet, bad reviews (be it in a forum or on a platform like YT) are likely to gather more interest than good reviews and spread much faster. 

Most likely the patents have expired but that would  (and should) not prevent them to mention the technologies used on the pickup models. 

Cheers Stephan
Area 67, Area 58, Area 61, VV Pro 54, Injectors, VV HB2, Virtual Solo, SDS-1, Area T, Area Hot T, Area T 615, Virtual Hot T, Chopper T, Bluesbucker, Breed set, Air Norton, Super Distortion, DLX+, DLX-90, DP240, DP198, DP168, VHPAF, AT-1, Norton

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Offline buddroyce

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Re: Patent numbers gone...
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2021, 10:10:11 AM »
I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to dig up their patent numbers. Although it would be nice to put together a resource page with the patent info.
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Offline sveto

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Re: Patent numbers gone...
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2021, 02:38:55 PM »
I agree. Would be an excellent resource on this very forum. :thumbsup:

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Offline RayBarbeeMusic

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Re: Patent numbers gone...
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2021, 08:17:26 PM »
I agree as well.  Can we get a sticky?

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Offline RayBarbeeMusic

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Re: Patent numbers gone...
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2021, 08:28:03 PM »
To expand, we could have a sticky with a description of each technology (Air, Dual Resonance, VV) then a list of which pickup use which (or none).  That would be a very useful resource.

Always strikes me odd that DiMarzio is well ahead of the curve on pickup design tech, but somehow in people's minds they are a 'basic' pickup.  They were doing some things waaaaay before anyone else thought of them, and other makers started copying, calling it something different, then acting like they invented it when DiMarzio had been doing it for years.

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Offline Guitar74

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Re: Patent numbers gone...
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2021, 10:55:13 AM »
I also like when said manufacturers use a design that DiMarzio invented and patented, and then go on an internet rant about how unfair DiMarzio is for getting bent out of shape when they call them out on claiming an invention or process that wasn't their own.
If you're having one of those days where everyone is on your case and is just getting on your nerves, it's probably not everyone else

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Offline darkbluemurder

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Re: Patent numbers gone...
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2021, 03:11:21 AM »
Actually the description of the technologies and the patent numbers are in here: https://www.dimarzioforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=731.0

Which means that we only need to collect which pickup has what. Do you want stickies for each technology? The disadvantage of that would be that for pickups that employ more technologies than one you would have to look into each sticky. Or we could do one covering all technologies which would need regular updates in order to remain clear (which I would then take care of). Please let me know.

Cheers Stephan
Area 67, Area 58, Area 61, VV Pro 54, Injectors, VV HB2, Virtual Solo, SDS-1, Area T, Area Hot T, Area T 615, Virtual Hot T, Chopper T, Bluesbucker, Breed set, Air Norton, Super Distortion, DLX+, DLX-90, DP240, DP198, DP168, VHPAF, AT-1, Norton

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Offline sveto

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Re: Patent numbers gone...
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2021, 02:01:02 PM »
Which means that we only need to collect which pickup has what.

That's exactly the issue, and why i made the post in the first place. :)

[EDIT: The corrected and complete list can be found here: https://www.dimarzioforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=15830.0 ]

IMO, a list like above, sorted by pickup model, would be most useful.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2021, 07:55:29 AM by sveto »