Looking to try something between a 36th PAF and Tone Zone

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Offline Matt_B

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Re: Looking to try something between a 36th PAF and Tone Zone
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2015, 07:40:59 AM »
Thanks for the extra info Ray.

I'm going to use the AT-1 or Norton with a either a Breed Neck or 36th PAF so any combination will work for me.

As for the pot value, considering that I like the 36th with a 500K pot I think either the AT-1 or Norton will work for me. I don't mind bright.

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Offline slugworth

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Re: Looking to try something between a 36th PAF and Tone Zone
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2015, 10:34:32 AM »
Another great pickup worth considering is the Virtual Hot PAF. It's discontinued, but they show up often enough on the used market to be obtainable. I agree with Ray's gradient list, and I would put the VHPAF right in between the AT-1 and Air Zone.

It's full and fat without being thundering (which I think may be the source of complaint of the Air Zone's similarity to the Tone Zone).
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Offline Matt_B

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Re: Looking to try something between a 36th PAF and Tone Zone
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2015, 11:55:40 AM »
Another great pickup worth considering is the Virtual Hot PAF. It's discontinued, but they show up often enough on the used market to be obtainable. I agree with Ray's gradient list, and I would put the VHPAF right in between the AT-1 and Air Zone.

It's full and fat without being thundering (which I think may be the source of complaint of the Air Zone's similarity to the Tone Zone).
I've thought about getting one of those because folks around here speak so highly of them but to be blunt, I'm afraid if I get one and like I will go crazy trying to find more of them for all my other guitars. :)
« Last Edit: May 04, 2015, 12:55:33 PM by Matt_B »

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Offline RayBarbeeMusic

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Re: Looking to try something between a 36th PAF and Tone Zone
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2015, 09:21:56 PM »
I've had both the VHPAF and 36th in the same guitar, the 36th bridge was actually the replacement in the DiMarzio lineup for the VHPAF. 

They are VERY similar.  I found the VHPAF to be slightly fatter in the highs and lows, but not night and day at all.  Not sure what Slugworth's rig is like but obviously he's hearing something different than what I am.  All kinds of things affect perception of a pickup's tone.  I'd put the VHPAF right next to and holding hands with the 36th on that list.

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Offline Matt_B

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Re: Looking to try something between a 36th PAF and Tone Zone
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2015, 06:36:57 AM »
Thanks again Ray. You put that idea to rest for me.

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Offline slugworth

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Re: Looking to try something between a 36th PAF and Tone Zone
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2015, 11:38:55 AM »
The Virtual Hot PAF and Virtual PAF Bridge were "replaced" in Dimarzio's lineup by the 36th Anniversary PAF, and the VHPAF and 36th have the same output rating. But they are much different in other regards and are not really all that close to being the same pickup, hence the petitions to Dimarzio to bring back the Virtual PAFs.

The 36th is tighter and brighter, while the VHPAF is looser, warmer, and more full down low. No it's not night and day, but the VHPAF is closer to the Air Zone in this regard than the AT-1 is.

It looks like there's still plenty of NOS left on the VHPAF, too. There's an eBay seller with 5 black ones and 1 double cream.
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Offline Matt_B

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Re: Looking to try something between a 36th PAF and Tone Zone
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2015, 03:19:42 PM »
The Virtual Hot PAF and Virtual PAF Bridge were "replaced" in Dimarzio's lineup by the 36th Anniversary PAF, and the VHPAF and 36th have the same output rating. But they are much different in other regards and are not really all that close to being the same pickup, hence the petitions to Dimarzio to bring back the Virtual PAFs.
I've read the petition (for the VHPAF) here so I know how beloved they are. To be clear though, the 36th Bridge has an output of 285 mv whereas the VHPAF has 265 mv, at least according to the 2006 Dimarzio catalog I referenced.

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The 36th is tighter and brighter, while the VHPAF is looser, warmer, and more full down low. No it's not night and day, but the VHPAF is closer to the Air Zone in this regard than the AT-1 is.

It looks like there's still plenty of NOS left on the VHPAF, too. There's an eBay seller with 5 black ones and 1 double cream.
Yeah, I've seen the ones on eBay and while that's encouraging if I really liked the pickup I would need like 11 of them, mostly in double cream

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Offline slugworth

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Re: Looking to try something between a 36th PAF and Tone Zone
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2015, 03:43:55 PM »
11? Wow! Sounds like you are headed out on a world tour.  8)

I was thinking the published spec on the VHPAF was 285mv, but I guess my memory warped a digit. Even still, the output difference from the 36th bridge would probably be imperceptible.
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Offline Matt_B

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Re: Looking to try something between a 36th PAF and Tone Zone
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2015, 04:20:57 PM »
11? Wow! Sounds like you are headed out on a world tour.  8)
No, I've just got a lot of guitars and I like them to be consistent. I'm just afraid that I'll like the VHPAF so much that I won't want to play guitar without them though I'll still keep a few with Tone Zones or other pickups.

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I was thinking the published spec on the VHPAF was 285mv, but I guess my memory warped a digit. Even still, the output difference from the 36th bridge would probably be imperceptible.
I agree the difference in the real world is minimal to the point of being irrelevant.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2015, 09:25:34 PM by Matt_B »

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Offline corypheus

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Re: Looking to try something between a 36th PAF and Tone Zone
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2015, 12:09:24 AM »
Try an Air Zone (which is an air version of the Tone Zone) or an Norton, though I think between the two, AZ is probably closer to what you're looking for.
The Air Zone is too close to a Tone Zone for my tastes.

In that case, it's Norton.  :)

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Offline RayBarbeeMusic

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Re: Looking to try something between a 36th PAF and Tone Zone
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2015, 12:57:56 AM »
Slugworth:

Man not sure what you're hearing with the AT-1, you sure yours isn't defective?  It is WAY fatter/darker/harmonically more complex, and comes across much hotter than a VHPAF, which is basically just an overwound PAF.  I ended up putting A3 in my VHPAF to take some edge off, and that's with 250k pots.  Hot, middy, or dark it is not.  The AT-1 is far closer to the AZ in terms of output and dark/bright/mids, and I can't imagine it getting along with 250k pots unless the guitar or amp were REALLY bright.

Based on that and other places I've seen you say you used 250k with an AT-1, I'm thinking something is wrong with your AT-1. 

I still have and use both pickups in multiple guitars, along with AZs, Breed Necks, Norton, and I really have no explanation at all for your take on the AT-1 other than to say yours might have a defect.  I'd actually be rather surprised if it didn't, or if there weren't some wiring or grounding issue happening.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2015, 12:59:27 AM by RayBarbeeMusic »

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Offline slugworth

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Re: Looking to try something between a 36th PAF and Tone Zone
« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2015, 10:45:17 AM »
My AT-1 is long gone. Maybe it was a bad one, who knows. It sounded airy and brighter than I thought it would, and I was surprised it wasn't closer to the Air Zone. Maybe I accidentally connected the coils in parallel. I like to think I have enough experience to avoid such a dumb mistake, and I know my ears can pick out immediately when a pickup is running in parallel. Shrug.
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Offline darkbluemurder

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Re: Looking to try something between a 36th PAF and Tone Zone
« Reply #27 on: May 07, 2015, 03:22:21 AM »
It is quite hard for me to imagine how one could accidentally wire a pickup in parallel instead of series since it's a totally different wiring scheme. To me it would be more likely that the series linkage was not insulated properly or the insulation of one wire was damaged and touched a ground connection somewhere thereby making the pickup operate as single coil. Of course that would also have manifested in producing much more hum. If the hum level was the same my guess is it was defect in some unknown way.

I had only limited experience with the AT-1 (just about half an hour noodling on an Ibanez AT-100 in a store) but I did not hear anything bright and airy in it - loud, fat, rich in the mids and singing is as I would describe it.

Cheers Stephan
Area 67, Area 58, Area 61, VV Pro 54, Injectors, VV HB2, Virtual Solo, SDS-1, Area T, Area Hot T, Area T 615, Virtual Hot T, Chopper T, Bluesbucker, Breed set, Air Norton, Super Distortion, DLX+ set, DLX-90, DP240, DP198, DP168, VPAF b, AT-1, Mo' Joe, FRED, Super 2; GS b

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Offline slugworth

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Re: Looking to try something between a 36th PAF and Tone Zone
« Reply #28 on: May 07, 2015, 02:50:40 PM »
I'm somehow finding it difficult to appreciate the continued insinuation that I don't know how to wire a guitar because I didn't like the AT-1.

 :P  >:(
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Offline Matt_B

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Re: Looking to try something between a 36th PAF and Tone Zone
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2015, 03:42:04 PM »
I'm somehow finding it difficult to appreciate the continued insinuation that I don't know how to wire a guitar because I didn't like the AT-1.

 :P  >:(
I think because your opinion of what you heard (with the AT-1) seems contrary to how others describe it they are looking for answer as to why. The fact is it's highly unlikely the pickup was defective but it's absolutely possible. As for your wiring job, I for one take your word for it when you say you know what you're doing when it comes to wiring in a pickup but there still is the possibility that you did make a mistake when installing. However unlikely that may be it is still possible. No one can know for sure but in the end it really doesn't matter what the root of your different opinion is.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2015, 06:43:38 AM by Matt_B »