New Tone Charts!?!

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Offline RayBarbeeMusic

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New Tone Charts!?!
« on: June 12, 2022, 03:18:17 AM »
Anyone noticed Dimazio now has new charts with mids broken into "low mid" and "High Mid"? Also, the other numbers are totally different than the new numbers. 

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Offline darkbluemurder

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Re: New Tone Charts!?!
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2022, 04:10:10 AM »
Yeah. It also seems that the ranges are wider than before. Whereas under the old numbers most pickups fell between 4.5 and 6 in treble, the range now seems to be between 3 and 9. In some cases they even go to 10 and 1.5, which was never the case with the old numbering system.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2022, 06:15:13 AM by darkbluemurder »
Area 67, Area 58, Area 61, VV Pro 54, Injectors, VV HB2, Virtual Solo, SDS-1, Area T, Area Hot T, Area T 615, Virtual Hot T, Chopper T, Bluesbucker, Breed set, Air Norton, Super Distortion, DLX+, DLX-90, DP240, DP198, DP168, VPAF b, AT-1, Mo' Joe, FRED, Humbucker from Hell

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Offline darkbluemurder

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Re: New Tone Charts!?!
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2022, 11:56:58 AM »
I also noticed that the relative B/M/T vs. B/LM/HM/T charts changed significantly for some pickups, in particular the Bluesbucker. Under the old system it was like 4.5/5/6 and therefore one of the tightest and brightest humbuckers in the line up.

Under the new system, the Air Classics, the PAF Masters, the PAF Pro and the PAF Joe are all suddenly tighter and brighter than the Bluesbucker. What happened?
Area 67, Area 58, Area 61, VV Pro 54, Injectors, VV HB2, Virtual Solo, SDS-1, Area T, Area Hot T, Area T 615, Virtual Hot T, Chopper T, Bluesbucker, Breed set, Air Norton, Super Distortion, DLX+, DLX-90, DP240, DP198, DP168, VPAF b, AT-1, Mo' Joe, FRED, Humbucker from Hell

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Offline mmmguitar

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Re: New Tone Charts!?!
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2022, 06:21:27 PM »
Under the new system, the Air Classics, the PAF Masters, the PAF Pro and the PAF Joe are all suddenly tighter and brighter than the Bluesbucker. What happened?

Marketing happened.

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Offline RayBarbeeMusic

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Re: New Tone Charts!?!
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2022, 09:53:50 PM »
I also noticed that the relative B/M/T vs. B/LM/HM/T charts changed significantly for some pickups, in particular the Bluesbucker. Under the old system it was like 4.5/5/6 and therefore one of the tightest and brightest humbuckers in the line up.

Under the new system, the Air Classics, the PAF Masters, the PAF Pro and the PAF Joe are all suddenly tighter and brighter than the Bluesbucker. What happened?

Yeah I can't say I agree with the new numbers in a relative way.  They did have trebles that went to 9 before though (Area 67, EJ).  The new numbers strike me as a bit off from pickup to pickup. 

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Offline darkbluemurder

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Re: New Tone Charts!?!
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2022, 10:31:32 AM »
Yeah I can't say I agree with the new numbers in a relative way.  They did have trebles that went to 9 before though (Area 67, EJ).  The new numbers strike me as a bit off from pickup to pickup. 

Correct - I was (silently) referring to the humbuckers.
Area 67, Area 58, Area 61, VV Pro 54, Injectors, VV HB2, Virtual Solo, SDS-1, Area T, Area Hot T, Area T 615, Virtual Hot T, Chopper T, Bluesbucker, Breed set, Air Norton, Super Distortion, DLX+, DLX-90, DP240, DP198, DP168, VPAF b, AT-1, Mo' Joe, FRED, Humbucker from Hell

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Offline darkbluemurder

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Re: New Tone Charts!?!
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2022, 05:51:41 AM »
I definitely cannot understand how they arrived at 1.5 bass for the Humbucker from Hell. That thing has as much bass as any PAF out there (at least when used in the neck spot) so to my ears that is definitely off the mark.

They should return to the old system. To cope with four parameters was confusing enough so why add a fifth and more complexity? To add to that, everyone has a different imagination on "mids", "low mids", "high mids" and "treble" anyway.

Here is my "imagination":

Bass - everything up to about 150hz
Low mid - from 150hz to about 300hz
Center mid - from 300hz to about 1500hz
High mid - from 1500hz to about 2500hz
Treble - from 2500hz up

Please feel free to disagree.

Cheers Stephan
Area 67, Area 58, Area 61, VV Pro 54, Injectors, VV HB2, Virtual Solo, SDS-1, Area T, Area Hot T, Area T 615, Virtual Hot T, Chopper T, Bluesbucker, Breed set, Air Norton, Super Distortion, DLX+, DLX-90, DP240, DP198, DP168, VPAF b, AT-1, Mo' Joe, FRED, Humbucker from Hell

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Offline Aceman

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Re: New Tone Charts!?!
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2022, 11:05:22 AM »
Yes, I did notice this, and I am not generally a fan.

As mentioned, if you told me what the cutoffs were, that would be awesome. 

And for some pickups, I probably don't want low/high mids distinguished.

I agree - Marketing and Milenials just changing things without asking if it was wanted or better.

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Offline JR

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Re: New Tone Charts!?!
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2022, 02:59:03 AM »
Bass - everything up to about 150hz
Low mid - from 150hz to about 300hz
Center mid - from 300hz to about 1500hz
High mid - from 1500hz to about 2500hz
Treble - from 2500hz up

Please feel free to disagree.

Cheers Stephan

I would be interested in the frequency ranges as well. Actually I sent an e-Mail to DiMarzio Tech and asked about that. Unfortunately there was no answer at all.

In general I kind of prefer the new ranges. Prefering low mids to high mids mostly, I was always struggeling with the old values because of the missing separation between low and high mids. I believe there are some examples that reflect the differences that I hear based on the new values (which was not so the case with the old values), e.g.:
- Super 3 vs Super Distortion: Super 3 being thicker than SD in the low mids, SD having more high end.
- Super 3 vs Tone Zone: both comparably thick in the bass and low mids, but Tone Zone being stronger in the high mids
- Air Zone vs Tone Zone: Air Zone having slightly less upper mids (sounding more open) and a notch more high end than Tone Zone

However, there are some examples that do not really fit, especially if you compare between the different types of pickups (Humbuckers vs. Single Coils). But this was already the case with the old ratings. It's probably never perfect, also because it is highly subjective. Finally, I find it quite helpful if you compare pickup A to B, especially if you want to distinguish between low mids and high mids. I wouldn't want DiMarzio to change back.

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Offline yanyan

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Re: New Tone Charts!?!
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2022, 12:36:28 AM »
What i would love for Dimarzio to do would be to publish inductance and resonant peak frequencies instead, together with oscilloscope traces like in the old 1978 catalog that i have.

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Offline darkbluemurder

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Re: New Tone Charts!?!
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2022, 03:41:57 AM »
Wow - they did publish that back then? Unfortunately I started playing guitar only in 1979.
Area 67, Area 58, Area 61, VV Pro 54, Injectors, VV HB2, Virtual Solo, SDS-1, Area T, Area Hot T, Area T 615, Virtual Hot T, Chopper T, Bluesbucker, Breed set, Air Norton, Super Distortion, DLX+, DLX-90, DP240, DP198, DP168, VPAF b, AT-1, Mo' Joe, FRED, Humbucker from Hell

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Offline Piing

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Re: New Tone Charts!?!
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2022, 08:39:57 PM »
I definitely cannot understand how they arrived at 1.5 bass for the Humbucker from Hell. That thing has as much bass as any PAF out there (at least when used in the neck spot) so to my ears that is definitely off the mark.

That is interesting. I was considering purchasing a Humbucker from Hell to replace the Air Norton neck, but I discarded it after I saw these charts because they indicate that has little bass at all and too much treble. On the opposite extreme of what I want to achieve.

How much can we trust these charts?
« Last Edit: September 08, 2022, 08:43:58 PM by Piing »