New Tone Charts!?!

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Offline RayBarbeeMusic

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New Tone Charts!?!
« on: June 12, 2022, 03:18:17 AM »
Anyone noticed Dimazio now has new charts with mids broken into "low mid" and "High Mid"? Also, the other numbers are totally different than the new numbers. 

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Offline darkbluemurder

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Re: New Tone Charts!?!
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2022, 04:10:10 AM »
Yeah. It also seems that the ranges are wider than before. Whereas under the old numbers most pickups fell between 4.5 and 6 in treble, the range now seems to be between 3 and 9. In some cases they even go to 10 and 1.5, which was never the case with the old numbering system.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2022, 06:15:13 AM by darkbluemurder »
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Offline darkbluemurder

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Re: New Tone Charts!?!
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2022, 11:56:58 AM »
I also noticed that the relative B/M/T vs. B/LM/HM/T charts changed significantly for some pickups, in particular the Bluesbucker. Under the old system it was like 4.5/5/6 and therefore one of the tightest and brightest humbuckers in the line up.

Under the new system, the Air Classics, the PAF Masters, the PAF Pro and the PAF Joe are all suddenly tighter and brighter than the Bluesbucker. What happened?
Area 67, Area 58, Area 61, VV Pro 54, Injectors, VV HB2, Virtual Solo, SDS-1, Area T, Area Hot T, Area T 615, Virtual Hot T, Chopper T, Bluesbucker, Breed set, Air Norton, Super Distortion, DLX+, DLX-90, DP240, DP198, DP168, VPAF b, AT-1, Mo' Joe, FRED, Humbucker from Hell, Super 2

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Offline mmmguitar

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Re: New Tone Charts!?!
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2022, 06:21:27 PM »
Under the new system, the Air Classics, the PAF Masters, the PAF Pro and the PAF Joe are all suddenly tighter and brighter than the Bluesbucker. What happened?

Marketing happened.

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Offline RayBarbeeMusic

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Re: New Tone Charts!?!
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2022, 09:53:50 PM »
I also noticed that the relative B/M/T vs. B/LM/HM/T charts changed significantly for some pickups, in particular the Bluesbucker. Under the old system it was like 4.5/5/6 and therefore one of the tightest and brightest humbuckers in the line up.

Under the new system, the Air Classics, the PAF Masters, the PAF Pro and the PAF Joe are all suddenly tighter and brighter than the Bluesbucker. What happened?

Yeah I can't say I agree with the new numbers in a relative way.  They did have trebles that went to 9 before though (Area 67, EJ).  The new numbers strike me as a bit off from pickup to pickup. 

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Offline darkbluemurder

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Re: New Tone Charts!?!
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2022, 10:31:32 AM »
Yeah I can't say I agree with the new numbers in a relative way.  They did have trebles that went to 9 before though (Area 67, EJ).  The new numbers strike me as a bit off from pickup to pickup. 

Correct - I was (silently) referring to the humbuckers.
Area 67, Area 58, Area 61, VV Pro 54, Injectors, VV HB2, Virtual Solo, SDS-1, Area T, Area Hot T, Area T 615, Virtual Hot T, Chopper T, Bluesbucker, Breed set, Air Norton, Super Distortion, DLX+, DLX-90, DP240, DP198, DP168, VPAF b, AT-1, Mo' Joe, FRED, Humbucker from Hell, Super 2

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Offline darkbluemurder

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Re: New Tone Charts!?!
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2022, 05:51:41 AM »
I definitely cannot understand how they arrived at 1.5 bass for the Humbucker from Hell. That thing has as much bass as any PAF out there (at least when used in the neck spot) so to my ears that is definitely off the mark.

They should return to the old system. To cope with four parameters was confusing enough so why add a fifth and more complexity? To add to that, everyone has a different imagination on "mids", "low mids", "high mids" and "treble" anyway.

Here is my "imagination":

Bass - everything up to about 150hz
Low mid - from 150hz to about 300hz
Center mid - from 300hz to about 1500hz
High mid - from 1500hz to about 2500hz
Treble - from 2500hz up

Please feel free to disagree.

Cheers Stephan
Area 67, Area 58, Area 61, VV Pro 54, Injectors, VV HB2, Virtual Solo, SDS-1, Area T, Area Hot T, Area T 615, Virtual Hot T, Chopper T, Bluesbucker, Breed set, Air Norton, Super Distortion, DLX+, DLX-90, DP240, DP198, DP168, VPAF b, AT-1, Mo' Joe, FRED, Humbucker from Hell, Super 2

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Offline Aceman

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Re: New Tone Charts!?!
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2022, 11:05:22 AM »
Yes, I did notice this, and I am not generally a fan.

As mentioned, if you told me what the cutoffs were, that would be awesome. 

And for some pickups, I probably don't want low/high mids distinguished.

I agree - Marketing and Milenials just changing things without asking if it was wanted or better.

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Offline JR

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Re: New Tone Charts!?!
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2022, 02:59:03 AM »
Bass - everything up to about 150hz
Low mid - from 150hz to about 300hz
Center mid - from 300hz to about 1500hz
High mid - from 1500hz to about 2500hz
Treble - from 2500hz up

Please feel free to disagree.

Cheers Stephan

I would be interested in the frequency ranges as well. Actually I sent an e-Mail to DiMarzio Tech and asked about that. Unfortunately there was no answer at all.

In general I kind of prefer the new ranges. Prefering low mids to high mids mostly, I was always struggeling with the old values because of the missing separation between low and high mids. I believe there are some examples that reflect the differences that I hear based on the new values (which was not so the case with the old values), e.g.:
- Super 3 vs Super Distortion: Super 3 being thicker than SD in the low mids, SD having more high end.
- Super 3 vs Tone Zone: both comparably thick in the bass and low mids, but Tone Zone being stronger in the high mids
- Air Zone vs Tone Zone: Air Zone having slightly less upper mids (sounding more open) and a notch more high end than Tone Zone

However, there are some examples that do not really fit, especially if you compare between the different types of pickups (Humbuckers vs. Single Coils). But this was already the case with the old ratings. It's probably never perfect, also because it is highly subjective. Finally, I find it quite helpful if you compare pickup A to B, especially if you want to distinguish between low mids and high mids. I wouldn't want DiMarzio to change back.

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Offline yanyan

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Re: New Tone Charts!?!
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2022, 12:36:28 AM »
What i would love for Dimarzio to do would be to publish inductance and resonant peak frequencies instead, together with oscilloscope traces like in the old 1978 catalog that i have.

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Offline darkbluemurder

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Re: New Tone Charts!?!
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2022, 03:41:57 AM »
Wow - they did publish that back then? Unfortunately I started playing guitar only in 1979.
Area 67, Area 58, Area 61, VV Pro 54, Injectors, VV HB2, Virtual Solo, SDS-1, Area T, Area Hot T, Area T 615, Virtual Hot T, Chopper T, Bluesbucker, Breed set, Air Norton, Super Distortion, DLX+, DLX-90, DP240, DP198, DP168, VPAF b, AT-1, Mo' Joe, FRED, Humbucker from Hell, Super 2

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Offline Piing

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Re: New Tone Charts!?!
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2022, 08:39:57 PM »
I definitely cannot understand how they arrived at 1.5 bass for the Humbucker from Hell. That thing has as much bass as any PAF out there (at least when used in the neck spot) so to my ears that is definitely off the mark.

That is interesting. I was considering purchasing a Humbucker from Hell to replace the Air Norton neck, but I discarded it after I saw these charts because they indicate that has little bass at all and too much treble. On the opposite extreme of what I want to achieve.

How much can we trust these charts?
« Last Edit: September 08, 2022, 08:43:58 PM by Piing »

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Offline Speeddemon

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Re: New Tone Charts!?!
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2022, 07:02:13 AM »
That is interesting. I was considering purchasing a Humbucker from Hell to replace the Air Norton neck, but I discarded it after I saw these charts because they indicate that has little bass at all and too much treble. On the opposite extreme of what I want to achieve.
What were you looking for out of that replacement then?
If you want a bigger sound than the Air Norton, that still has a good high-end for a neck pickup, may I suggest the Breed Neck?

In my Charvel So-Cal I found it too jangly, but since switching it to a Gibson Flying V '67  RI, it's damn perfect.
Makes the guitar sound bigger (closer to a Les Paul), without muddyness, which is what I was going for. And since it's all mahogany and ebony FB, the highs are sweet and not strident.
In use: 13x DiMarzio (7 gtrs), 7x Duncan (3 gtrs).
Got preference? ;)

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Offline darkbluemurder

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Re: New Tone Charts!?!
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2022, 08:40:37 AM »
How much can we trust these charts?

I trust them only as a general starting point, and for some pickups it is not even that. I give you two examples under the old system (B/M/T):

Super Distortion 8/7/6, output 410
Breed Bridge 8/9/5, output 365

From that you would conclude that they do sound somewhat similar, the Breed maybe with a bit more mids, less highs and a bit less output.

Back-to-back experiment in practice (bridge position of a PRS Custom, standard tuning, 9-43 strings currently).
Result: they sound TOTALLY different. Not even close.

Super Distortion: heavy low/low mid emphasis, low end is tight but not super tight, midrange is rather dark (think of an "ah" vowel tone like in "bucket", not like in "bag"), the 1st and 2nd strings are very bright, bordering on thin/shrill, and that was with a load of approx. 375k. With 500k I expect that it would have been even brighter/thinner on the top strings. Very one dimensional overall in this guitar. Clean very dark but certainly workable.

Breed Bridge (with 500k load): heavy mid emphasis, mostly center mids but also low mids but overall the midrange is not as dark (think of an "aeh" vowel tone like in "bag"), loose low end, very smooth top end, a lot of fun to play overdriven single notes on the top two strings, nothing thin here and nothing edgy either. Clean very warm with almost no sparkle on top.

Cheers, Stephan
Area 67, Area 58, Area 61, VV Pro 54, Injectors, VV HB2, Virtual Solo, SDS-1, Area T, Area Hot T, Area T 615, Virtual Hot T, Chopper T, Bluesbucker, Breed set, Air Norton, Super Distortion, DLX+, DLX-90, DP240, DP198, DP168, VPAF b, AT-1, Mo' Joe, FRED, Humbucker from Hell, Super 2

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Offline DarthPhineas

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Re: New Tone Charts!?!
« Reply #14 on: Today at 07:40:08 AM »
What i would love for Dimarzio to do would be to publish inductance and resonant peak frequencies instead, together with oscilloscope traces like in the old 1978 catalog that i have.

adding inductance and resonant peak info puts any pickup maker ahead of the game.  no reason that a company like DiMarzio wouldn't already have that info.


I understand why it will probably never happen, but the major companies coming to an agreement on a standardization of mV measurements would be great for customers.... but these companies operate more out of fear that what can help customers might help customers choose another brand.  lol!
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