DiMarzio Forum
DimarzioForum.Com => The Pickup Place => Topic started by: retiredff on October 16, 2016, 08:33:36 PM
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Hello new here.
I building a strat that I do NOT want to sound like a strat. I have a strat I built with a MIM body, Warmoth Gibson 24.75" scale neck, Fender 57/62 pickups, all new wiring CTS/Switchcraft etc. I have the single coil sound I'm happy with. The reason I building an identical strat (except for the color) is the feel. The one I built plays/feels really good to this old man and his hands so I want one just like it only with a different sound. The Mim body is routed H/S/S and I really don't want to route the body.
My amp is a Peavey Delta Blues 210, I have a few pedals; Boss DB-2, Fish and Chips Eq, HPB-1 boost, MXR dyna comp, H2O delay/chorus. ALL of these I bought USED on ebay.
The music I play is classic/Hard rock, blues and at times some country. I'm restarting my playing after a long period of not playing electric. I played acoustic more recently but the electrics are easier for me to play.
I emailed DiMarzio and they suggested;
Bridge - Air Norton S
Middle - Satch Track OR Chopper
Neck - Pro Track
I also found pre-built pickguard that has;
Bridge Fast Track 2 OR the 36th Anniversary PAF full size?
Middle Fast Track 1
Neck Pro Track
Give me an idea with of these or more suggestion what will give me a sound I can live with. Just so it's NOT single coil sounding, and probably nothing really HOT for the music I play.
Thanks
Tony
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Well, to be even more different, you could try three mini humbuckers too 8)
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My choices would be:
Bridge: Pro Track
Middle: Cruiser
Neck: Satch Track
The Fast Track 2 is pretty hot, so if you dont want hot....
I'd personally go Area 67 in the middle for those Stratty 2/4 tones but if you don't want that, the Cruiser is cool.
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My choices would be:
Bridge: Pro Track
Middle: Cruiser
Neck: Satch Track
The Fast Track 2 is pretty hot, so if you dont want hot....
I'd personally go Area 67 in the middle for those Stratty 2/4 tones but if you don't want that, the Cruiser is cool.
Thanks I will put this on my list
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Well, to be even more different, you could try three mini humbuckers too 8)
The whole point of this build is not to be different but to have a guitar that will handle the humbucker sounds of the music I cover. I'm not a writer nor will I become a rock star and I'm not really trying to find my own sound, just something to play along with my song library.
:)
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I found a demo on youtube Joe Santorini. He has a 2 pickup guitar with
Full size in the bridge and Satch Track in the neck. His pick for the bridge is way to hot for me so I may go with
PAF Master Bridge
Satch Track Neck
NO middle pickup and just use a 3 way switch. Doing coil splits or anything else will just give me strat sounds that I really don't want or need.
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I had the H-S set up for a while - Virtual Hot PAF in the bridge and Area 67 in the neck, but I was looking for the classic strat neck tone. The Injector neck works also well in such a configuration. I have since returned to H-S-S for this guitar with a Virtual Vintage 54 Pro in the middle but that is - you guessed it - a strat set up.
The last pickup combo you suggested could work well if you like a brighter tone in the bridge spot. JS usually has the Mo Joe in the bridge, which is advertised as medium output.
Cheers Stephan
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Thanks Stephan for the reply. Yea, I'm looking for vintage PAF sounds. The main reason is the other strat I built that sounds like a strat is super comfortable for me to play. So I'm working around comfort spec and adding pickups that fit the bill.
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With the above 2 humbucker pickup combo should I use 500k, 250k or 500k vol and 250k tone? My guitar will be a short scale 24.75", does that make it darker? I want to keep this vintage or close. If I go with 250k is there a way to ad a resistor to make them 500k without replacing all of the pots? I'm planning on using .022uF caps.
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With the pots it's the other way round - you can use a 500k pot and add a 470k (or two 1 meg resistors) in parallel to make the load (close to) 250k. But you cannot increase the load of a 250k pot to 500k with resistors. That is the first reason I would choose 500k in this application.
The second reason is that the neck humbucker benefits from the higher load. A 500k volume pot would let you have the neck pickup with a 500k pot, then if it is too bright for the bridge pickup you can add the resistor(s) to bring the load on the bridge pickup down until it sounds right. For this purpose you have to solder the resistor from the tap on the switch where the hot wire of the bridge pickup is connected to ground.
Good luck,
Stephan
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Thanks Stephan.
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My guitar has 24.75" scale and 22 fret rosewood neck. Would the PAF 36th Anniversary bridge be a better choice than the PAF master bridge because of it's slightly higher output? The 36th Anniversary output is 285 vs 278 for the Master. The Satch Track neck is rated at 245. The Pro Track is 275 and the description says it has a PAF sound and is great for blues. If it's ok for blues than it should be in the ballpark for classic/hard rock.
I may go with:
36th Anniversary Bridge
Pro Track in the neck.
I would rather be a little to hot than to thin.
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I have used most of the Dimarzio S pickups, including many prototypes that never made it to production with names like "Mallard."
I strongly recommend a Pro Track in the neck if you want 60s-80s rock neck tones. It splits nicely if you wanna get twangy. I remember having one in a Gibson Flying V90 and it sang as sweet as any PAF clone I ever heard--especially in a V--gawd I miss that guitar (note my handle).
Middle? I would probably go with a Fast Track 1 (to combine pickups) or a Chopper (for better solo output, close to the Pro Track). The Chopper has shades of Strat tone, but its nice and chunky---thick sounding---and combines well with other pickups. It also splits well and should combine well split with the Pro Track.
These are fairly hot middle and neck pickups so you need something in the bridge that will match well with them. I think that the Super Distortion S would fit the bill here for hard rock, although it might be a little bassy. The Fast Track 2 is way over the top and I don't recommend it for anything but metal. I never used the Tone Zone S. It looks like it would match up well if its not too bassy. I never used the Air Norton S either. The tone specs look good for your style, but the output seems a little weak to combine with the others. Of course, you can adjust the pickup heights to balance them.
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Thanks for the reply AxemanV90. I'm not using a middle pickup, would the Super Distortion be too much for classic rock/blues?
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Found the Super Distortion S and it says; I'm new to DiMarzio and had to look for it.
"Since the Super Distortion® S will usually be installed in the slanted bridge position of a 25½” scale guitar, we’ve adjusted the specs of the original Super Distortion® humbuckers to compensate."
*****I have a Warmoth Gibson conversion neck 24.75" scale, rosewood fretboard.
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I may look into using a middle pickup, thanks for the info AxemanV90.
Tony
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AxeManV90 - I assume with the 3 pickups you suggested I should use 500K pots and .022uF caps?
Tony
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If you are only going to use 2 pups, then I would probably try out the Tone Zone S with a Pro Track.
I would use 500K pots and .022uf for a standard V/T setup. A 0.015uf will make the zero position just a hair brighter and a little more useful imho ("woman tone"). You might want to consider a no-load 500K tone pot so that your tone circuit doesn't suck any tone out when you have it all the way up. I actually use a 6 position rotary switch on my Gibson SG-Z where the first position is no tone circuit at all and the other 5 are either just caps or a cap & resistor that are tweaked for various sounds like Angus Young, PRS Sweet Switch. Woman Tone (that 0.015uf) and two that mimic useful positions on a standard tone control.
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Slightly off topic but @AxeManV90 - do you use the rotary switch as the sole tone switch or in conjunction with a tone pot?
Thanks,
Stephan
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Thanks AxemanV90 for the help, I appreciate it. I had not thought about the no-load pot. Now I have to research yet another pickup, Tone Zone S. :)
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@AxemanV90.
I'm sticking with you suggestion of the 3 pickup design, no loads and the cap/pot values. This should be interesting when finished. I won't start buying parts (pups, pots, neck, pickguard) until next month. I'll post a pic when done.
Thanks to everyone for your reply's, I know nothing about aftermarket pups you have helped me a lot.
Thanks again ;D ;D ;D
Tony
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Slightly off topic but @AxeManV90 - do you use the rotary switch as the sole tone switch or in conjunction with a tone pot?
Thanks,
Stephan
Just by itself. It also has a series/parallel/split pickup rotary switch. It has a Mo' Joe in the bridge and a Chopper in the neck. Fred was too bright for me in the bridge.
There are really only a few usable positions on a tone control and I picked 5 tones that I like best. I almost always use it in the "OFF" position so it doesn't suck tone. A straight capacitor to ground has a much sharper rolloff than with a tone pot and results in more nasally tones. One sounds a little like Angus Young's rig and another sounds a lot like the PRS Sweet Switch or Michael Schenker when he uses a wah-wah for a tone filter. Of course, the "woman tone" is with the pot on zero ohms, so a straight cap does that job too. The other two tones are just snapshots of two positions on a regular tone knob at about half way and 3/4 of the way off. I think I used 160K and 90K resistors with a common 0.015uF cap.
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The rail type pickups respond best in the bridge position to 250k volume; but in the other positions, require 500k. Regardless of what you end up going with, I'd run a 500k resistor from the bridge hot tab to ground to let the bridge pickup see 250k while the others see 500k. Pretty much kiss your 'quack' goodbye, unless you set up the bridge+neck position on your switch.
I think what I'd do if I were you is 1) use a super switch, 2) run aforementioned resistor to ground for the "bridge only" position, 3) set up switch positions so that what would normally be the middle+neck position would be bridge + neck.
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The rail type pickups respond best in the bridge position to 250k volume;
That is true for most of the rail pickups, since most of them are bright sounding...lots of treble.
According to the specs, the Tone Zone S is very light on treble and very heavy on bass. I think that it would probably be an exception to the rule.
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My choices will be:
Bridge = Air Norton S (280)
Middle = Satch Track (245)
Neck = Pro Track (275)
Volume pot 500k and no load tone pots. The reviews I have read said the Pro Track is capable of any rock/blues from '60's-'90's, I should be fine. The Bridges reviews have said is is very good in the bridge position for PAF sounding blues/rock. I'm hoping the middle I can use to add some sparkle but still keep the humbucker tone in 2,3 &4. I'll probably use 1 & 5 most of all but until I get it together...
Thanks again for everyones suggestions.
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Good choices.
Perhaps its personal taste, but I compared the Satch Track and the Chopper for the neck position in a mahogany Gibson SG-Z. These two are so close that they make very little difference and I liked the Chopper more. I would not pay the extra $ for the Satch name.
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OK AxemanV90. Why is the Satch $5+?
the pups I have selected now;
Bridge = Air Norton S (280)
Middle = Satch Track (245) <****** Chopper (260) <*****
Neck = Pro Track (275)
The chopper is really close to the other 2, is that good or bad?
FYI: I'm buying the pups, pots-3, input jack, 5 way selector, all knobs and wired (NO PICKGUARD) for less than I can buy the parts and solder it myself, from Sigler music 920D.
http://www.siglermusiconline.com
I'm ordering a custom pickguard (without vol pot hole so I can move it down toward the 5 way switch) from Warmoth when I order the neck for my strat body.
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The Satch costs more because it says Satch instead of Chopper. The pickups cost about the same to make, just with a different formula.
For what you are looking for, the higher output of the Chopper is more in line with a "calibrated" set of pickups, where the output is greater at the bridge position and goes down as you get to the neck position. Also, you want a little less treble from pickups as you go towards the bridge. The Satch is just a slightly brighter, less powerful version of the Chopper.
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OK, Thanks for the help.
Because of the shorter scale of the neck I'm using no-load tone controls that should brighten it up some. If it's too bright I can use the tone knobs. I would rather have it a touch bright than too dark.
This will be interesting when finished, hopefully it will be what I want.