DiMarzio Forum
DimarzioForum.Com => The Pickup Place => Topic started by: Moovylucky on December 22, 2015, 09:16:12 PM
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Hello! I have a PRS Custom 24 that came stock with the HFS in the bridge, which sounded horrible in every way, and the Vintage Bass in the neck which I quite like.. After experimenting with different bridge pickups I tried the AT-1. I liked it quite a bit in series, but tapped it sounded incredibly weak and anemic compared to the much lower output Vintage Bass pickup, which sounds great in series or tapped... I found this disappointing and confusing that such a higher output pickup would sound so weak tapped, and I'm quite sure I didn't wire it out of phase, as I tried several wiring combinations to get every position in phase.. Could it have something to do with the air technology causing the weak sounding split? Thanks!
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I've tried the AT-1 split. While I didn't think the sound sucked, it was the main reason I went back to an AirZone. Man, that thing splits better than anything I've tried.
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Did you experience the same thing I did when splitting the AT-1, a really weak split sound?
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Did you try splitting the other coil as well? Or just the one?
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Just the one coil that is usually used to split - the slug coil, but the pickup sounded unexpectedly weak in series as well.. I had to have the pickup almost right under the strings to match the neck pickup that is close to half the power and buried level with the pickup mounting ring.. I emailed back and forth with one of the Dimarzio techs and based on my description he thinks I should send it back because it sounds to him as though it might have gotten partially demagnetized during shipping.
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Would have been interesting to see if both coils were like that. I have one here....I will see if I can work it I'm to the rotation to check on that.
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My AT-1 isn't all that weak when split, I'd just been spoiled by the AirZone. Sounds like you do have a faulty pickup, if the wiring isn't the problem
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it might have gotten partially demagnetized during shipping.
oh really? I'd be very curious as to what conditions a modern high quality magnet could be subjected to that would degauss it.
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it might have gotten partially demagnetized during shipping.
oh really? I'd be very curious as to what conditions a modern high quality magnet could be subjected to that would degauss it.
I was wondering that as well, especially in something as short term as the shipping procedure. Pickups can be in retail packaging on store shelves for weeks/months without problems. Did UPS put this box next to a particularly strong disruptive field or drop it more/further than usual?
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Strange that it's so weak compared to the Vintage Bass, something's off. Wasn't the general consensus that the AT-1 is better in parallel than split anyway? I really need to try one ASAP.
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Yeah, it seemed strange to me as well, but thats what the tech told me via email.. He said that some demagnetization happens very rarely.. The AT-1 is an interesting pickup for sure. In series I did like it quite a lot. It has a very smooth high end with a midrange rather similar to the Chopper, which is also a pickup I like very much (in a strat). The AT-1 also has a nice, big, low end that stays tight.. I don't know how they did that - maybe the air technology has some part in that.. That said, it really is a different kind of pickup, at least different from what I'm used to. I've used Dimarzio single coils for many years, mainly Virtual Vintage and Area series, but in years past I had usually used Duncans for humbuckers. The air tech definitely makes the pickup behave differently.. I'm wondering if the bad sounding split has do with the fact that the PRS is not a "true" split, but rather a tap. There is a cap in the wiring that brings in a little bit of the grounded coil when tapped. This is pretty cool in that it gives it slightly more output in single coil mode, while offering a bit less 60 cycle hum... Not that this notion is logical, but I wonder if my AT-1 is truly defective, or if it just didn't like being tapped for some reason.. The Vintage Bass taps beautifully, and is only 8.6k DC resistance - and I know that is not a reliable criteria for judging output, but it's the only info that PRS gives.. But, you'd think that the AT-1, being around 16K - and "aired", which might lower the "actual" output a little, to maybe feeling or responding to something that is around 14K (just a guess..), that still would not explain why the AT-1 sounded so weak compared to the VB unless the AT-1 is defective... Just thinking out loud here. I honestly don't know..
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AFAIK, it is spilt coils on your PRS pickups
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So, the AT-1 should not behave much differently (other than output) when split from the VB...
My pickup must be defective, then.. Because I had to have it really close to the strings even when it was in series - just to compete with the VB in output.
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I just check my AT-1 and got the following specs
16.73k series
8.35k split (slug)
8.38 split (screw)
4.18 parallel
So I don't imagine it should be a case of asymmetrical coils where the split one tried was just weaker. They should be pretty much close to each other. Maybe a funky coil or something with the wiring connections at the coil or maybe the demagnetized issue or even something else.
It will be interesting to see what turns up to be the culprit.
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Darth - Do you find that you need to have your AT-1 really close to the strings?
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Darth - Do you find that you need to have your AT-1 really close to the strings?
Nah. I space it normally, starting at about 3/32" on the low E and about 1/32" on the high E and then tweak from there.
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Try snipping the prs treble bleed.
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How would the high pass filter (treble bleed) effect the output of the AT-1? It has not effected output in any other pickup I've had in the guitar.
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As an FYI, I was reading a thread recently over at TGP about splitting a 36 Anni PAF, where the poster really didn't like the split tone he was getting, even with a resistor in the ground shunt to beef it up a bit.
After some experimenting he discovered the problem was that the DiMarzio didn't like the stock treble bleed in his PRS, and said his split sound was greatly improved by switching the cap value.
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My experience with splitting humbuckers is that if you use a humbucker with a 500k volume pot, the split tone will be too bright since the resonant peak of one working coil with a 500k volume pot is too high. I add a 470k resistor to ground which is only engaged in the split mode so that in split mode the pickup sees a load of approx. 235k - 240k. This reduces the resonance peak of the coil and gives the sonic impression of reduced excessive brightness and a rounder tone - very effective. This works also well for the parallel mode (my thanks go to RayBarbeeMusic for sharing this information here).
Cheers Stephan
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In addition to that resistor, add a .001uf to .0033uf cap that engages when in split or parallel. That further takes the edge off.
Say you have this on your push/pull:
1 2
3 4
5 6
Where 4 is the negative from coil 1 and has a jumper to 1, 3 is positive from coil 2, 5 is positive from coil 1 and also goes to your pickup selector or volume pot depending on the guitar, and 6 is ground. Ground of coil 2 can go to 6 or the pot casing, doesn't matter either is ground.
In the "down" position, 3 connects to 1 (which is jumpered to 4) so your pickup is in series (positive of coil 2 connected to negative of coil 1). In the "Up" position, the negative of coil 1 connects to 6 (ground) so it operates as it's own coil, 3 connects to 5 so hot of coil 2 connects with hot of coil 1, i.e. 2 single coils in parallel.
Now connect a 470k to 500k resistor and a .001uf to .0033uf cap from 4 to 3. In the "down" position, 4 is jumpered to 1 and so shorted to 3, the resistor and cap have no effect when the pickup is in series humbucker mode. But when you go to the "up" position, 3&5 (hot from both coils) short and now see that resistor and cap to ground (remember 4 shorts to ground (6) when switch is "up") in parallel with your volume pot. So if you're using a 500-550k pot, your two single coils in parallel now see an appropriate volume pot load for a single coil (250k ish) and excess high end is also shunted by the small cap.
Works wonders.