Satch Track vs Bluesbucker (bridge position)

  • 12 Replies
  • 8496 Views

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

*

Offline Lelik

  • Newbie
  • *
  • 23
  • 1
    • View Profile
Satch Track vs Bluesbucker (bridge position)
« on: March 03, 2023, 02:09:27 AM »
I know they have a different size, but it's not a problem for my project.

For pop/rock/instrumental rock, I'm considering a single pickup guitar but with some options (with caps, resistors, partial split) to get some "variations" even with just a single bridge pickup.
From the descriptions and reviews I'm very interested in trying the Bluesbucker that could be what I'm really looking for (dynamic response, not too dark). But... I have a Satch Track that at the end I haven't used yet.
Do you think it's really very different from the Bluesbucker? Will it be too thin in the bridge position? Will it work properly using the two blade coils with caps/resistors to get different sounds?

I know you can say: test it! But my new build is far from being ready yet, and I'd like some expert opinons in the meanwhile.

By the way, since the neck will be 25", maybe I need more clarity and dynamic response for that reason too (losing a little transients/attack vs standard 25-1/2" necks). Apart from the Bluesbucker, I don't know if I should also consider the Air Classic Bridge, Fred, Paf Master Bridge...
« Last Edit: March 03, 2023, 04:11:12 AM by Lelik »

*

Offline darkbluemurder

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 1597
  • 53
    • View Profile
Re: Satch Track vs Bluesbucker (bridge position)
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2023, 04:13:52 AM »
No experience with the Satch Track, only with the Bluesbucker, and only in the neck position so I am afraid I am not of much help here ... I used the Chopper and Chopper T in the bridge position with good results, and they sound good in parallel, too.

The Bluesbucker would have the advantage that the single coil tone is almost as loud as the humbucker tone.

Cheers Stephan
Area 67, Area 58, Area 61, VV Pro 54, Injectors, VV HB2, Virtual Solo, SDS-1, Area T, Area T 615, Virtual Hot T, Chopper T, Bluesbucker, Breed set, Air Norton, Super Distortion, DLX+ set, DLX-90, DP240, DP198, DP168, VPAF b, AT-1, Mo' Joe, FRED, Super 2; GS b

*

Offline Lelik

  • Newbie
  • *
  • 23
  • 1
    • View Profile
Re: Satch Track vs Bluesbucker (bridge position)
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2023, 06:09:51 AM »
No experience with the Satch Track, only with the Bluesbucker, and only in the neck position so I am afraid I am not of much help here ... I used the Chopper and Chopper T in the bridge position with good results, and they sound good in parallel, too.

The Bluesbucker would have the advantage that the single coil tone is almost as loud as the humbucker tone.

Cheers Stephan

Thank you for your information anyway!
And looking at your list of pickups I see the "Mo' Joe" (and Fred too), so I wonder if maybe I should consider that model too for my project.  :)

*

Offline gregr

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • 135
  • 2
    • View Profile
Re: Satch Track vs Bluesbucker (bridge position)
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2023, 11:03:44 AM »
I think you could get a lot of mileage out of a D Sonic.
Area 58, 61, 67 & Hot T; VVB, 54P & HB2; InjN. FT 1 & 2, Satch Track.
BNIB, PAF Pro, HFH, Air Norton, LiquiFire, EJ Neck. V Mini N & B. Corgan & Timmons sets.
Duncan SSL-2 & 6T, Lil Demon, JBJrN, HotRailN. 59, Jazz/APH & Full Shred sets. JB, Custom 2, 5 & Ceramic, Seymourizer II, Screamin’ Demon

*

Offline mmmguitar

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • 51
  • 2
    • View Profile
Re: Satch Track vs Bluesbucker (bridge position)
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2023, 05:28:47 PM »
I have pertinent experience and; personally, did not care for the Satch Track (or similarly-voiced PAF Joe, for that matter) in the bridge position when I tried for the sake of experimentation. They were designed to be neck pups; and those characteristics just didn't usably translate between positions, for me. The Bluesbucker works fine in either position, but it has a sound all its own (I liken it to a Fender Texas Special strat pickup into a clean boost). I love the Bluesbucker and Satch track in neck position - But, as others have stated or implied, there are pickups better-suited to versatility in bridge position.

*

Offline darkbluemurder

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 1597
  • 53
    • View Profile
Re: Satch Track vs Bluesbucker (bridge position)
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2023, 02:43:40 AM »
And looking at your list of pickups I see the "Mo' Joe" (and Fred too), so I wonder if maybe I should consider that model too for my project.  :)

Sure. Both would work depending on what you are planning to use as a neck pickup and as values for your volume control. I use the Fred in a HSS set up with a 250k volume pot which works really well there. With a 500k volume pot it might be too bright. Mo' Joe works well with a 500k volume pot - I have it as a bridge pickup in an HSH set up, incidentally with a Bluesbucker in the neck.

Cheers Stephan
Area 67, Area 58, Area 61, VV Pro 54, Injectors, VV HB2, Virtual Solo, SDS-1, Area T, Area T 615, Virtual Hot T, Chopper T, Bluesbucker, Breed set, Air Norton, Super Distortion, DLX+ set, DLX-90, DP240, DP198, DP168, VPAF b, AT-1, Mo' Joe, FRED, Super 2; GS b

*

Offline Lelik

  • Newbie
  • *
  • 23
  • 1
    • View Profile
Re: Satch Track vs Bluesbucker (bridge position)
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2023, 11:56:47 AM »
And looking at your list of pickups I see the "Mo' Joe" (and Fred too), so I wonder if maybe I should consider that model too for my project.  :)

Sure. Both would work depending on what you are planning to use as a neck pickup and as values for your volume control. I use the Fred in a HSS set up with a 250k volume pot which works really well there. With a 500k volume pot it might be too bright. Mo' Joe works well with a 500k volume pot - I have it as a bridge pickup in an HSH set up, incidentally with a Bluesbucker in the neck.

Cheers Stephan

Thanks! My target is to make a guitar with only the bridge pickup. In the end, in a band context I use it 90% of my time.
But at the same time I'd like to get "very different tones" from it, because: never say never.
And in case I will not be happy, I could anyway add a neck pickup later (like the Injector neck or maybe Cruiser bridge that I already used in the past in the neck in some guitars and I liked it).

So my idea is that I will buy the EP1111 (the "super" switch of Dimarzio) and I will wire it to get 3 sounds (from my bridge pu) like:
- standard bridge humbucker sound
- partial coil split with a capacitor (and in case a resistor too) to ground, so that I'd get a kind of notch filter to simulate a neck pickup and/or an inbetween strat sound
- addition of a cap (and in case a resistor too) in parallel with the pickup (or with the partial coil split) to get a lower resonance to simulate a neck or a different pickup
By the way, I'm interested only in passive circuits to get these different sounds; I could even consider an inductor but then the costs add up a lot.

My first idea is the Bluesbucker because I like its concept as far as I can read (slightly single coil-ish, great dynamic response) and I like a lot the sound I can hear in this excellent demo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIS52q18RKU
(well, to be honest it's the only good demo I found!)
On the other hand I don't know if its special construction (with that almost silent second coil) will not work properly or will not get the expected sound changes when I add the capacitor in parallel and when it is wired to make the partial split. And that's why I mentioned the Mo' Joe (or Fred) as worthy of choice because of their more traditional coil construction, even if I don't have any personal experience with them.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2023, 01:09:34 PM by Lelik »

*

Offline gregr

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • 135
  • 2
    • View Profile
Re: Satch Track vs Bluesbucker (bridge position)
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2023, 03:30:45 PM »
A couple of things…

There is’t much point in partially splitting a Bluesbucker since the dummy coil isn’t changing the tone anywhere near as much as a coil in a normal humbucker. That said, a Nash-modified Les Paul contains a tone control that is used to variably split a Bluesbucker while also adjusting the tone. It’s a pretty novel circuit that you should be able to find online.

I find that you get better results splitting higher output humbuckers so long as they are still relatively bright. While splitting to a single coil extends the frequency range it also generates less low end causing it to sound thin. A vintage-to-medium output humbucker generally lacks low end as it is and doesn’t have enough power through the midrange to keep the tone from sounding tinny and brittle. You don’t get as much extension with a higher output humbucker but you do get more output through the midrange. This additional heft gives you more to chip away at when using a parallel RC network in series with the output in order to give a more even tone like a single coil. You can still partially split these but you won’t need as much of the second coil to fill out the sound.  This will give you more of the bell-like tone that you will get from a single coil.

You should manage your expectations regarding getting a notch position tone or that of a neck pickup. The notch tone will require more physical separation between the coils and the defining voice of a neck pickup rests entirely on its location.

Again I point to the D-Sonic. Have a look at the description. You’ll get a different tone based on which coil you use as well as the pickup’s orientation. It also performs well when wired in parallel, which might be preferable over being wired in series for those who are averse to hot pickups.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2023, 02:15:20 AM by gregr »
Area 58, 61, 67 & Hot T; VVB, 54P & HB2; InjN. FT 1 & 2, Satch Track.
BNIB, PAF Pro, HFH, Air Norton, LiquiFire, EJ Neck. V Mini N & B. Corgan & Timmons sets.
Duncan SSL-2 & 6T, Lil Demon, JBJrN, HotRailN. 59, Jazz/APH & Full Shred sets. JB, Custom 2, 5 & Ceramic, Seymourizer II, Screamin’ Demon

*

Offline gregr

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • 135
  • 2
    • View Profile
Re: Satch Track vs Bluesbucker (bridge position)
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2023, 04:47:49 PM »
Also, if you’re interested in a Satch Track, I think you might be happier with a Pro Track. It has a similar vibe but is better suited for the bridge position.
Area 58, 61, 67 & Hot T; VVB, 54P & HB2; InjN. FT 1 & 2, Satch Track.
BNIB, PAF Pro, HFH, Air Norton, LiquiFire, EJ Neck. V Mini N & B. Corgan & Timmons sets.
Duncan SSL-2 & 6T, Lil Demon, JBJrN, HotRailN. 59, Jazz/APH & Full Shred sets. JB, Custom 2, 5 & Ceramic, Seymourizer II, Screamin’ Demon

*

Offline darkbluemurder

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 1597
  • 53
    • View Profile
Re: Satch Track vs Bluesbucker (bridge position)
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2023, 03:57:01 AM »
The partial split is most beneficial with humbuckers with nearly identical coils as they are usually designed purely for the humbucker tone (i.e. coils in series). Keep in mind that when the humbucking pickup was invented in the mid 50s the goal was to eliminate hum. Nobody thought of using only one coil as that would have defeated its purpose of eliminating the hum. Only later splitting of the humbuckers became popular in an attempt to get Fender-like tones out of a dual humbucker guitar.

With the Bluesbucker, a partial split is not "necessary"as the single coil tone has almost the same output, because it was designed for that. Of course there is nothing wrong in trying, and if you prefer the partial split to the regular split it is your choice.

Cheers Stephan
Area 67, Area 58, Area 61, VV Pro 54, Injectors, VV HB2, Virtual Solo, SDS-1, Area T, Area T 615, Virtual Hot T, Chopper T, Bluesbucker, Breed set, Air Norton, Super Distortion, DLX+ set, DLX-90, DP240, DP198, DP168, VPAF b, AT-1, Mo' Joe, FRED, Super 2; GS b

*

Offline Lelik

  • Newbie
  • *
  • 23
  • 1
    • View Profile
Re: Satch Track vs Bluesbucker (bridge position)
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2023, 07:36:50 PM »
Thanks a lot for your help and suggestions. Very very helpful!
By the way, I wrote to DiMarzio too, explaining the same details of my posts, and I got this reply and an unexpected suggestion:
"I think you should consider a more traditional pickup for the concept you have in mind. The Bluesbucker may not have the versatility to do what you have in mind. The Mo’ Joe should be better. You might also look at the Satchur8. It may have more output than you are looking for, but it has better dynamics than the output spec would indicate, and the split and parallel sounds are very good."

*

Offline gregr

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • 135
  • 2
    • View Profile
Re: Satch Track vs Bluesbucker (bridge position)
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2023, 08:19:57 PM »
I got this reply and an unexpected suggestion:
They can see you’re after a Satriani flavor which they have in a high output option which they believe will  provide you better split and parallel performance.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2023, 08:47:32 PM by gregr »
Area 58, 61, 67 & Hot T; VVB, 54P & HB2; InjN. FT 1 & 2, Satch Track.
BNIB, PAF Pro, HFH, Air Norton, LiquiFire, EJ Neck. V Mini N & B. Corgan & Timmons sets.
Duncan SSL-2 & 6T, Lil Demon, JBJrN, HotRailN. 59, Jazz/APH & Full Shred sets. JB, Custom 2, 5 & Ceramic, Seymourizer II, Screamin’ Demon

*

Offline JohnnyGtar

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • 190
  • 3
    • View Profile
Re: Satch Track vs Bluesbucker (bridge position)
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2023, 10:50:59 PM »
I had a Charvel 375 and I installed a Bluesbucker in the bridge position. I was VERY impressed. It was killer with high gain and sounded great in series, parallel and split. Clean, crunch and high gain sounds kicked major ass. I think you'll probably enjoy it and if you don't, DiMarzio has a 30 day exchange policy.
Area 58, Area 61, Area 67, HS-2, HS-3, Virtual Vintage Heavy Blues, Fast Track 1, Air Classic neck, Air Norton, Air Zone, Al DiMeola bridge, Bluesbucker, Breed neck, Double Whammy, EVO 2, Evolution neck, Evolution bridge, FRED, MegaDrive, Norton, Super2, Super 3, Super Distortion, Tone Zone, X2N