DiMarzio Forum

DimarzioForum.Com => The Pickup Place => Topic started by: Octacoil on February 19, 2020, 12:30:57 PM

Title: JP Neck Pickups
Post by: Octacoil on February 19, 2020, 12:30:57 PM
Air Norton
Liquifire
Illuminator
Sonic Ecstasy
Rainmaker

Anyone kind enough to share your experiences with those? I'd like to know the differences as well as the direction of his tonequest.
Title: Re: JP Neck Pickups
Post by: HarlowTheFish on February 19, 2020, 04:25:58 PM
Air Norton to me sounds like a jazz box - it's warm, thick, a little boomy, and somehow produces a godly lead tone when you give it a bunch of gain. Not my favorite personally, but really good when paired with something equally thick like a Tone Zone so you can set your amp up with less bass and compensate for both.

Liquifire was kinda like an AN with a bunch of the low end just chopped off, so you can still get that godly lead tone paired with a brighter bridge pickup. Still not super my thing, but IMO it works in a lot more situations than the AN.

The Illuminator and Sonic Ecstasy set are my favorites of the bunch - a lot of mids, sweet but present treble, and a very controllable low end (despite how much of it there is). The Illuminator is a bit brighter and snarlier, while the Sonic Ecstasy is a bit thicker and gruntier, with a touch less treble - think cranked AC15 (Illuminator) vs. cranked Tweed Junior (Sonic Ecstasy).

Haven't had a chance to try out anything with the Rainmaker yet, so I don't wanna give you bad advice on that, but the samples I've heard sound kinda disappointing to me, like a step backwards.
Title: Re: JP Neck Pickups
Post by: Octacoil on February 19, 2020, 04:53:44 PM
Cool. So far I have only tried the illuminator. Sure I have heard samples online but also want to hear it from players that have experience with those.

+1 karma!!!
Title: Re: JP Neck Pickups
Post by: Mew on February 21, 2020, 02:50:53 AM
I had something similar to Air Norton .... Complete mudfest.
Title: Re: JP Neck Pickups
Post by: Schneidas on February 21, 2020, 03:27:15 AM
Also not a fan of the Air Norton. Was just too "airy", warm and muddy.
I half-Air modded mine and it improved to the point where I really liked it. The output increased, and the flutey-ness and airyness was gone with much improved pick-attack.
I prefer the stock Liquifire over the stock Air Norton. But for me the Liquifire needs to be wired straight to the volumepot with no tone pot connected and there it's usable. Otherwise it's again, a tad too warm.
Haven't tried the other JP pickups yet.
Title: Re: JP Neck Pickups
Post by: Strobe on February 26, 2020, 11:29:53 AM
Air Norton to me sounds like a jazz box - it's warm, thick, a little boomy, and somehow produces a godly lead tone when you give it a bunch of gain. Not my favorite personally, but really good when paired with something equally thick like a Tone Zone so you can set your amp up with less bass and compensate for both.

Liquifire was kinda like an AN with a bunch of the low end just chopped off, so you can still get that godly lead tone paired with a brighter bridge pickup. Still not super my thing, but IMO it works in a lot more situations than the AN.

The Illuminator and Sonic Ecstasy set are my favorites of the bunch - a lot of mids, sweet but present treble, and a very controllable low end (despite how much of it there is). The Illuminator is a bit brighter and snarlier, while the Sonic Ecstasy is a bit thicker and gruntier, with a touch less treble - think cranked AC15 (Illuminator) vs. cranked Tweed Junior (Sonic Ecstasy).

Haven't had a chance to try out anything with the Rainmaker yet, so I don't wanna give you bad advice on that, but the samples I've heard sound kinda disappointing to me, like a step backwards.

I think Harlow summed this up very well from someone who also owns an Illuminator, CF/LF, and TZ/AN set. The one thing I will say in defense of the Air Norton. Yes, it has plenty of bass, but it seems to work perfectly in a basswood guitar with a double locking trem. To my ears, those both tend to shift the EQ to a little more trebly and less bassy, and both the Tone Zone and Air Norton just compensate for that perfectly to my ears. This is, in my opinion, the explanation for why there is so much TZ/AN hate. It is also the explanation for why the set is put into so many Ibanez Guitars - because it just kind of works.
Title: Re: JP Neck Pickups
Post by: HarlowTheFish on February 26, 2020, 12:48:02 PM
The one thing I will say in defense of the Air Norton. Yes, it has plenty of bass, but it seems to work perfectly in a basswood guitar with a double locking trem. To my ears, those both tend to shift the EQ to a little more trebly and less bassy, and both the Tone Zone and Air Norton just compensate for that perfectly to my ears.
I'm not a TZ/AN hater, I just prefer a brighter neck pickup. Hell, give me a TZ/Norton combo or double Nortons and I'm very happy. The TZ/AN combo works great for a beefy rock tone, but my favorite place for them is in a hollow-body or semi-hollow because they take these guitars that have a rich sound but lack punch and make them super grunty and muscular in a way that works really well for both cleans and higher-gain stuff (though the usual feedback caveats apply).

They do sound pretty killer in an Ibby Prestige though. The RG655 is one of my favorite-sounding superstrats and I still want one.
Title: Re: JP Neck Pickups
Post by: electricbhakti on February 28, 2020, 09:30:02 PM
I had the JP6 with the Crunch Lab/Liquifire combo.   It was a great set, sold the guitar because I didn't like the neck.    I use the Air Norton in the Bridge and a Bluesbucker in the Neck - Bill Nash trick.   Sounds incredible.   I did this combo in a Fender Blacktop Strat.   I enjoyed the Illuminators, but sold the Schecter they were in so they are no longer in my inventory.   Ultimately it depends on what style of music you play, amp set up, etc.    I noticed that the original Norton (not the air norton)  is awesome in the bridge with my injectors in neck and middle position.  I have that in one of my strats and its amazing.   
Title: Re: JP Neck Pickups
Post by: DarthPhineas on March 10, 2020, 08:25:56 AM
Air Norton
Liquifire
Illuminator
Sonic Ecstasy
Rainmaker

Anyone kind enough to share your experiences with those? I'd like to know the differences as well as the direction of his tonequest.


have tried:
Liquifire
Illuminator
Sonic Ecstasy
Rainmaker

but not:
Air Norton



I'd suggest not sweating the differences.  all variations of the same goal.  tweaking amp settings and playing technique can get them all in the same ballpark.
Title: Re: JP Neck Pickups
Post by: Octacoil on September 24, 2020, 08:05:24 PM
Air Norton
Liquifire
Illuminator
Sonic Ecstasy
Rainmaker

Anyone kind enough to share your experiences with those? I'd like to know the differences as well as the direction of his tonequest.


have tried:
Liquifire
Illuminator
Sonic Ecstasy
Rainmaker

but not:
Air Norton



I'd suggest not sweating the differences.  all variations of the same goal.  tweaking amp settings and playing technique can get them all in the same ballpark.

I know that but this is a forum about pickups. We are supposed "want" to know the differences between those. All the details. Does that makes sense to you?
Title: Re: JP Neck Pickups
Post by: HarlowTheFish on September 24, 2020, 08:44:01 PM
I know that but this is a forum about pickups. We are supposed "want" to know the differences between those. All the details. Does that makes sense to you?
I mean yeah but Darth Phin is right - these are pretty minor changes in pickups that feel and sound very similar. The CL/LF is has the most treble and is the most aggressive overall, the Illuminator has a bit more low-mids and less low bass than that and a brighter but less extended treble (so a growlier rather than snarlier attack under gain), and the Sonic Ecstasy is basically the same tonal recipe as the Illuminator but a bit sweeter on the treble. They're all a great steak, so to speak, it's just a matter of whether you're a skirt steak (CL/LF), NY strip (Illuminator), or ribeye (SE) kinda person. Even JP seems to take them as just evolutionary steps bc every time a new pickup comes out, all of the guitars he still plays switch over to them (JP 15 started with CL/LF, got Illuminators, JP16 started with Illuminators and switched to SE, Majesty did the same).
Title: Re: JP Neck Pickups
Post by: Octacoil on September 24, 2020, 09:47:13 PM
I know that but this is a forum about pickups. We are supposed "want" to know the differences between those. All the details. Does that makes sense to you?
I mean yeah but Darth Phin is right - these are pretty minor changes in pickups that feel and sound very similar. The CL/LF is has the most treble and is the most aggressive overall, the Illuminator has a bit more low-mids and less low bass than that and a brighter but less extended treble (so a growlier rather than snarlier attack under gain), and the Sonic Ecstasy is basically the same tonal recipe as the Illuminator but a bit sweeter on the treble. They're all a great steak, so to speak, it's just a matter of whether you're a skirt steak (CL/LF), NY strip (Illuminator), or ribeye (SE) kinda person. Even JP seems to take them as just evolutionary steps bc every time a new pickup comes out, all of the guitars he still plays switch over to them (JP 15 started with CL/LF, got Illuminators, JP16 started with Illuminators and switched to SE, Majesty did the same).

Welp maybe right about the minor changes but for the record I own both Crunchlab and Illuminator bridge. Tested both on several guitars. Similar but not "that" close.

What I disagree with is telling someone not to sweat the details. Pickup forum bro. Stay curious.
Title: Re: JP Neck Pickups
Post by: HarlowTheFish on September 25, 2020, 02:44:28 AM
I've played the CL/LF, Illuminators, and SEs in the same guitar - a friend's 2HB parts tele - and to my ear they sound damn near identical, with the general trend that I wrote in my other post: I've genuinely heard SD JBs that sound more different because of the differences between the 80s and modern models, or just between individual pickups, and you could easily make up this ground with about half a degree turn on your amp's EQ.

They feel pretty different though (the bridges more so than the necks - those just feel like you have a cranked MXR compressor on all the time). The CL feels way stiff and to my hand kinda harsh - I pick pretty hard and I have a bass background, so I tend to push the strings in towards the pickup a bit more than most guitarists, while the owner of this tele (who picks more normally) doesn't get that harshness so much. The Illuminator is less stiff but IMO it's a bit tubby in the low mids, so especially if you play kinda hard you get this really strange response where the treble and upper mids take a sec to come up in the sound. SE IMO is less stiff like the Illuminator but doesn't do this so it's my favorite one for the bridge.
As far as neck, my big issue with them (and why I kinda agree with Darth Phin) is that they sound different in the same way that the matching bridge pickups do, but they all feel so compressed that I could frankly not tell them apart when playing. Just off of hearing the sound, the SE is my favorite because I prefer brighter amps and it works well with that, Illuminator is so-so and the LF I really don't dig because it feels really indistinct. As far as playing feel I'd rather go for an Air Norton, which is just as fat but retains some dynamics, or a D-Activator X set to do something kinda like Michael Romeo thing (Tone Zone neck/X2n bridge) which sounds similar but IMO responds to my playing a lot better despite still being way too OTT for me.

I'm still curious, it's just that in my experience this particular line of pickups is a pretty shallow rabbit hole to dive into - OSHA wouldn't be too keen on that.
Title: Re: JP Neck Pickups
Post by: darkbluemurder on September 25, 2020, 03:12:42 AM
Harlow, I really like your descriptions as they not only cover sound but also feel and are put in context. I think this is really helpful.

Cheers Stephan
Title: Re: JP Neck Pickups
Post by: Octacoil on September 25, 2020, 10:40:53 AM
I've played the CL/LF, Illuminators, and SEs in the same guitar - a friend's 2HB parts tele - and to my ear they sound damn near identical, with the general trend that I wrote in my other post: I've genuinely heard SD JBs that sound more different because of the differences between the 80s and modern models, or just between individual pickups, and you could easily make up this ground with about half a degree turn on your amp's EQ.

They feel pretty different though (the bridges more so than the necks - those just feel like you have a cranked MXR compressor on all the time). The CL feels way stiff and to my hand kinda harsh - I pick pretty hard and I have a bass background, so I tend to push the strings in towards the pickup a bit more than most guitarists, while the owner of this tele (who picks more normally) doesn't get that harshness so much. The Illuminator is less stiff but IMO it's a bit tubby in the low mids, so especially if you play kinda hard you get this really strange response where the treble and upper mids take a sec to come up in the sound. SE IMO is less stiff like the Illuminator but doesn't do this so it's my favorite one for the bridge.
As far as neck, my big issue with them (and why I kinda agree with Darth Phin) is that they sound different in the same way that the matching bridge pickups do, but they all feel so compressed that I could frankly not tell them apart when playing. Just off of hearing the sound, the SE is my favorite because I prefer brighter amps and it works well with that, Illuminator is so-so and the LF I really don't dig because it feels really indistinct. As far as playing feel I'd rather go for an Air Norton, which is just as fat but retains some dynamics, or a D-Activator X set to do something kinda like Michael Romeo thing (Tone Zone neck/X2n bridge) which sounds similar but IMO responds to my playing a lot better despite still being way too OTT for me.

I'm still curious, it's just that in my experience this particular line of pickups is a pretty shallow rabbit hole to dive into - OSHA wouldn't be too keen on that.

See this is very helpful.

+1 karma.
Title: Re: JP Neck Pickups
Post by: HarlowTheFish on September 25, 2020, 01:28:32 PM
Harlow, I really like your descriptions as they not only cover sound but also feel and are put in context. I think this is really helpful.

Cheers Stephan
IMO, my $0.02:
You can get any sound with an MXR 10-band and we would all be playing Telecasters if that was the only thing that mattered.

The real reason we all gravitate to different axes/pickups is because they feel different, respond better/worse to our individual playing styles, and drive our different rigs in their own unique ways. I have 4 humbucker guitars, an ESP Eclipse, and RG Prestige, a Strandberg (HSS but still), and my Kiesel - they all sound like bright, decently attacky modern humbuckers (Strandy excepted) and I can make them sound the same with a couple of notches on my amp EQ. But the response, playability, and feel of each pickup in each guitar (despite the fact that I could easily swap all of them around and not necessarily hear a difference on a recording) is complementary to the response, playability, and feel of each guitar. I like the stiffer Lithiums in the Kiesel because it has a spongier resonance, I like the more compressed Fusion Edge set in the RG because of its open resonance, and I like the EMG-ish Guitarmory Patriots in the Eclipse because they make it sound as big plugged in as it does acoustically.

Jazz guys don't dislike the X2n because of the sound and output - there's a lot of them that use a Tone Zone which is in the same kinda ballpark - they dislike it because of the feel.
Country guys don't avoid humbuckers because of the sound necessarily (as there's definitely HBs that will get that plucky clean) but because they don't feel right for the style of playing.
Etc., etc.

Just my $0.02, /rant
Title: Re: JP Neck Pickups
Post by: Boyan Bo on October 12, 2020, 08:26:52 PM
Air Norton
Liquifire
Illuminator
Sonic Ecstasy
Rainmaker

IMHO -->
I have tried the AN, LF, and Illuminators, because they have come with my JP guitars.
If speaking only to the neck pickups (since the AN was the neck on the first JP6 guitars) all of them have potential for a nice creamy tone.
John being a fan of Steve Morse, has always wanted to achieve a similar singable and bubbly tone, especially in the neck position. Something that I am partial to, myself.
Out of those three, the Illuminators have been the most difficult to tame, which was accomplished by dialing their sweet-spot tones on the amp / processor / modeller.

Good tonal hunting folks!

-Bo

Title: Re: JP Neck Pickups
Post by: DarthPhineas on October 28, 2020, 07:44:53 AM
I know that but this is a forum about pickups. We are supposed "want" to know the differences between those. All the details. Does that makes sense to you?
I mean yeah but Darth Phin is right - these are pretty minor changes in pickups that feel and sound very similar. The CL/LF is has the most treble and is the most aggressive overall, the Illuminator has a bit more low-mids and less low bass than that and a brighter but less extended treble (so a growlier rather than snarlier attack under gain), and the Sonic Ecstasy is basically the same tonal recipe as the Illuminator but a bit sweeter on the treble. They're all a great steak, so to speak, it's just a matter of whether you're a skirt steak (CL/LF), NY strip (Illuminator), or ribeye (SE) kinda person. Even JP seems to take them as just evolutionary steps bc every time a new pickup comes out, all of the guitars he still plays switch over to them (JP 15 started with CL/LF, got Illuminators, JP16 started with Illuminators and switched to SE, Majesty did the same).

Welp maybe right about the minor changes but for the record I own both Crunchlab and Illuminator bridge. Tested both on several guitars. Similar but not "that" close.

What I disagree with is telling someone not to sweat the details. Pickup forum bro. Stay curious.

in case it wasn't clear.  probably shouldn't sweat those details.

to break it down for the "bros" that are "curious", JP wants a homogenous result from whatever comes from the output jack of whatever guitar.  the "curious" will note that whenever JP changes up something with his EBMM model, there is generally a new pickup to go along with it.... to... yep, keep the result in line with the basic result he wants hitting his amp.

so, yeah "bro" they are close enough to throw down with some slight amp tweaks to get similar results without dropping $100 on new gear.  which, for anyone "curious" is also what it's about.  like most artist DiMarzio models, JP's cost a little more because he gets a piece of that action.  it's marketing for all the OCD players that thing the slightest bit of this or that will transform their tone so much that the dude ordering another beer will turn around and tell the bartender "Wow! that "bro's" tone really cut through my drunken stupor as the best thing since EVH!  why's that band been playing open mic night at the HoJo for 5 years when they should be on the main stage at OzzFest"

good luck on your tone quest, "bro".  if you're genuinely "curious", you'd be throwing down the $ and trying them out instead of flexing on a message board.
Title: Re: JP Neck Pickups
Post by: Aceman on October 31, 2020, 06:38:47 PM
Help an old man out; JP?

I'm thinking Judas Priest....but that can't be right.
Title: Re: JP Neck Pickups
Post by: HarlowTheFish on November 01, 2020, 01:46:28 AM
Help an old man out; JP?

I'm thinking Judas Priest....but that can't be right.
John Petrucci of Dream Theater, AKA Italian Prog Jesus
Title: Re: JP Neck Pickups
Post by: Guitar74 on February 19, 2021, 12:04:26 PM
if you're genuinely "curious", you'd be throwing down the $ and trying them out instead of flexing on a message board.

I was sort of thinking the same thing myself. I'm new here so I'm gonna try and establish myself as the alpha.