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DimarzioForum.Com => Guitar Lounge => Topic started by: wxs3 on July 11, 2010, 02:04:58 pm

Title: Stratocaster tuning secret
Post by: wxs3 on July 11, 2010, 02:04:58 pm
I can't remember if I posted this before, but I have done this on 2 of my strats and it works.  My strats stay in tune (except when there is a really bad thunderstorm in the area).  I also have graphite nuts and locking tuners which help.  If you have a strat and can't keep it in tune then try this, it really works.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iy-F7iSIopA&feature=related
Title: Re: Stratocaster tuning secret
Post by: bzzdog on July 11, 2010, 10:26:21 pm
damn it. this totally made me want a strat again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Stratocaster tuning secret
Post by: CityofBlindingLights on July 11, 2010, 11:46:53 pm
Yeah, it works.

Especially a good lubricant at all contact points.
Title: Re: Stratocaster tuning secret
Post by: Echad on July 12, 2010, 03:11:35 am
Didn't they invent Kahlers, Floyds and Edges, like, before most of us were born? You people are that much backwards? :o

WTF, he wasted that much time to bend up a semitone? I can bend up and down half an octave and I didn't waste a second on setting up the tremolo! And the need for the locking tuners and or nut sauce or graphite was eliminated by the locking nut. I also do not need balls at the end of a string and therefore do not need to worry about it breaking at the bridge... A lot of Fender's idiosyncrasies were fixed since the time they were formed. Hell, even my mom wasn't born when this was modern and of any use. ;D

Quote
A good lubricant at all contact points

Plug in slowly, starting with a single finger, before going in full claw. And don't forget an enema! Sorry, could not resist. :D

Really, all this flawed tremolo stuff is pure anal sex, measuring spring tension and all. Bloody compulsive freaks! ::)

BTW, this forum highlights an*l s*x, but not fucking shit... Budd, be careful you censor gives away your preferences. :-*
Title: Re: Stratocaster tuning secret
Post by: Whitmore on July 12, 2010, 07:50:25 am
Didn't they invent Kahlers, Floyds and Edges, like, before most of us were born? You people are that much backwards? :o

WTF, he wasted that much time to bend up a semitone? I can bend up and down half an octave and I didn't waste a second on setting up the tremolo! And the need for the locking tuners and or nut sauce or graphite was eliminated by the locking nut. I also do not need balls at the end of a string and therefore do not need to worry about it breaking at the bridge... A lot of Fender's idiosyncrasies were fixed since the time they were formed. Hell, even my mom wasn't born when this was modern and of any use. ;D

Quote
A good lubricant at all contact points

Plug in slowly, starting with a single finger, before going in full claw. And don't forget an enema! Sorry, could not resist. :D

Really, all this flawed tremolo stuff is pure anal sex, measuring spring tension and all. Bloody compulsive freaks! ::)

BTW, this forum highlights an*l s*x, but not fucking shit... Budd, be careful you censor gives away your preferences. :-*

Three words.

Vintage bent saddles.
Title: Re: Stratocaster tuning secret
Post by: oilpit on July 14, 2010, 04:56:57 pm
Even thought I know that your trolling Echad and probably (hopefully) don't believe the crap that your saying, ignorance does piss me off.

For those who care about range of pitch, then yeah, floyds are better (Kahlers suck, hard)
For those who care about TONE, a regular vintage 6 screw trem is the way to go every time.

I would even be inclined to reverse your argument,

A big, ugly, tone sucking, clumsy, floyd (don't get me started on the locking nut) was outdated before it was invented, by proper care of your guitar. Also, EVH, Jimi Hendrix and David Gilmour would argue that "old fashioned" tremolos work just fine.
Title: Re: Stratocaster tuning secret
Post by: alfaromeo90 on July 14, 2010, 06:36:53 pm
Thanks WSX3, i didn't know that.  I rely a lot on graphite/graphtech nuts which help greatly.  Changes the tone a bit so unacceptable to some.  I wouldn't say the tone is worse, just different.
Title: Re: Stratocaster tuning secret
Post by: wxs3 on July 14, 2010, 06:51:26 pm
Thanks WSX3, i didn't know that.  I rely a lot on graphite/graphtech nuts which help greatly.  Changes the tone a bit so unacceptable to some.  I wouldn't say the tone is worse, just different.

You're welcome.  Sharing information is a good thing.  Maybe Budd or City will sticky this for future reference.
Title: Re: Stratocaster tuning secret
Post by: damonstewart70 on August 16, 2010, 09:55:17 am
Locking nuts do suck away lots of tone,anyone should be able to hear that.Notes just seem to RING TRUE without any locking mechanism at the nut,more VIBEration being transfered.That being said a whammy addict like myself absolutely love SPERZEL LOCKING TUNERS,FENDER BULLITS & GRAPHITE POWDER.Last time i played LIVE I put my guitar on the floor,stepped on the bar,yanked it up by the bar,all the circus stunts & never went out of tune.Seriously
Title: Re: Stratocaster tuning secret
Post by: JAMESDP100 on January 10, 2011, 12:53:03 am
Has any one looked into the super vee trems? they're supposed to be better than floyds and Eric Johnson uses them so they must not
suck the tone. the installation is also non invasive and can be uninstalled with no signs it was even really there. I tried that Carl Verheyen trick awhile back didn't work, maybe my strings were too thick idk.
Title: Re: Stratocaster tuning secret
Post by: KH Guitar Freak on January 13, 2011, 09:03:33 am
This "Floyd sucks tone" thing is blown way out of proportion. I bet if people did a blind audio test between two guitars, one with vintage trem and the other with a Floyd, I bet not many can tell which is which...
Title: Re: Stratocaster tuning secret
Post by: slugworth on January 14, 2011, 08:56:36 am
It's not the Floyd's fault directly.  It's a side effect of having a big chunk of wood chopped out of the middle of a guitar that impacts tone, and it just means that less of the overall tone is going to come from the wood, and more from everything else.
Title: Re: Stratocaster tuning secret
Post by: wxs3 on January 14, 2011, 12:06:03 pm
It's not the Floyd's fault directly.  It's a side effect of having a big chunk of wood chopped out of the middle of a guitar that impacts tone, and it just means that less of the overall tone is going to come from the wood, and more from everything else.

Most of the Floyds I've seen sit on top and use the original space set up the a stock trem. on some strats.  The ones that float usually don't have a lot of wood taken out just enough to float the bridge, is that enough to effect tone, I don't know.  Either way, you  can compensate with a oversized brass block which is a 100% improvement in tone.  But if you don't have a floyd and use a stock fender trem, this trick does work when setup correctly.
Title: Re: Stratocaster tuning secret
Post by: CityofBlindingLights on January 14, 2011, 06:51:27 pm
I've played Floyds without a problem.

My beef with Floyd Rose systems, is that by the time I have the thing set up to play, I'm bored/frustrated and have lost all interest in wanting to play. My vintage trems get me where I need to go just fine, I don't have many tuning issues. Yeah, occasionally it may happen, but that's if I'm going SEVERELY wild. Honestly, my ridiculously bluesy bends put the strings out of tune more often than my vintage trem.

And god forbid if I'm playing a Floyd guitar and want to play in drop d...
Title: Re: Stratocaster tuning secret
Post by: slugworth on January 15, 2011, 08:53:03 am
There's a product for that COBL... the D-Tuna.  I'm not a Floyd guy but I've played 'em and they seem to work pretty well.
Title: Re: Stratocaster tuning secret
Post by: CityofBlindingLights on January 16, 2011, 12:21:14 am
There's a product for that COBL... the D-Tuna.  I'm not a Floyd guy but I've played 'em and they seem to work pretty well.

I'm aware of it. But even still, it's only a minor component to my dislike of Floyds. The entire hassle of setup alone is my main issue. I have no problem with those who use them, they just aren't for me.
Title: Re: Stratocaster tuning secret
Post by: wxs3 on January 18, 2011, 08:51:41 pm
I could play either one, but my fav is the stock fender trem, hands down.
Title: Re: Stratocaster tuning secret
Post by: KH Guitar Freak on January 30, 2012, 08:03:14 am
I've played Floyds without a problem.

My beef with Floyd Rose systems, is that by the time I have the thing set up to play, I'm bored/frustrated and have lost all interest in wanting to play. My vintage trems get me where I need to go just fine, I don't have many tuning issues. Yeah, occasionally it may happen, but that's if I'm going SEVERELY wild. Honestly, my ridiculously bluesy bends put the strings out of tune more often than my vintage trem.

And god forbid if I'm playing a Floyd guitar and want to play in drop d...

Perhaps, but I find that both vintage and Floyds are just as hard (or as easy) to set up as one another. YMMV...
Title: Re: Stratocaster tuning secret
Post by: udk666 on February 20, 2012, 01:27:27 pm
the video is very interesting.
but i dont understand the vintage trems vs floydrse thing.
i own both for diferent purpusses and both work for diferent results.
Title: Re: Stratocaster tuning secret
Post by: Butch Snyder on December 14, 2012, 03:06:22 pm
Very nice video.  Thanks for sharing.  I'm just now getting back into vintage trems.  After playing mostly Teles and Strats with the trems tightened all the way down and the bar thrown out, I now have confidence to actually use my Strat's trem and also make it float.

I adjusted the claw and it actually did what Carl's Strat does.  It stayed in tune.  I know of another player doing this with no success.  Also, I know Carl uses 9's as a string gauge.  I use 10's.  We'll see what happens....
Title: Re: Stratocaster tuning secret
Post by: RayBarbeeMusic on March 22, 2013, 08:09:05 pm
1) When the Floyd was invented, graphtech and locking tuners did not exist, it was *THE ONLY* way to stay in tune.  Period. 

2) Now that graphtech and locking tuners do exist, a floyd isn't really necessary, and I don't miss it on guitars where I don't have one, at least not for tuning reasons.

3) A Floyd with a big brass block not only does not suck tone, it often exceeds the tone of a vintage bridge.  Also, the existance of graphtech and locking tuners make the nut clamp un-necessary unless you are doing stuff that would actually pull your strings out of the slots, and honestly, a Floyd with brass block is one of the best sounding trems available when using a graphtech nut and locking tuners, I greatly prefer it to Wilkinson, etc. 

4) The "tone sucking" and other issues commonly attributed to Floyds are not floyd related at all.  If you float a trem vs. locking it to the wood, you lose some tone.  That is true of any trem.  So if you go from a locked down 6 screw (which you locked down because it wouldnt stay in tune anyway) to a floating Floyd, you notice a tonal difference.  Duh.  I also hear this old chestnut all the time:  "well when you break a string the floyd goes out of tune" well no shit, when you break a string on any floating trem it goes out of tune, that has nothing to do with a FLoyd.  I use 13-62 or 14-66 strings at standard EADGBE pitch, and even my stop tails go out of tune when I break a string due to the change in neck tension. 

I work on guitars as part of my living, I can get damn near any trem system worth a crap to stay in tune exceedingly well with proper setup, graphtech nut, and locking tuners (excluding the Stetsbar, which still has too much internal friction).  You *DO NOT* need any "lube", "nut sauce", etc for that to be true, and if you are using that stuff, you aren't doing the wood any favors and you're making a mess to cover up a problem somewhere else, probably a sharp edge on the bridge or saddle or an improperly cut nut. 
Title: Re: Stratocaster tuning secret
Post by: wxs3 on March 24, 2013, 10:16:51 pm
I also have had success with "blocking" a floyd (in my wolfgang).  I had cut a piece of wood and glued it in between the body and the stock block on the peavy floyd.  I think as long as there is some sort of contact with the body of the guitar, it helps with tone quality.  My strat with a floyd also has an oversized brass block that is in contact with the body in the cavity still sounds better to me.
Title: Re: Stratocaster tuning secret
Post by: LuredMaul on March 27, 2013, 11:21:41 pm
As Soon as I saw this post I knew it was the Carl Verheym (sp) video LOL.

It does work.
Title: Re: Stratocaster tuning secret
Post by: Butch Snyder on March 28, 2013, 08:40:59 pm

It does work.

Yeah, it does....
Title: Re: Stratocaster tuning secret
Post by: 27fretshred on March 30, 2013, 09:30:30 pm
1) When the Floyd was invented, graphtech and locking tuners did not exist, it was *THE ONLY* way to stay in tune.  Period. 

2) Now that graphtech and locking tuners do exist, a floyd isn't really necessary, and I don't miss it on guitars where I don't have one, at least not for tuning reasons.

3) A Floyd with a big brass block not only does not suck tone, it often exceeds the tone of a vintage bridge.  Also, the existance of graphtech and locking tuners make the nut clamp un-necessary unless you are doing stuff that would actually pull your strings out of the slots, and honestly, a Floyd with brass block is one of the best sounding trems available when using a graphtech nut and locking tuners, I greatly prefer it to Wilkinson, etc. 

4) The "tone sucking" and other issues commonly attributed to Floyds are not floyd related at all.  If you float a trem vs. locking it to the wood, you lose some tone.  That is true of any trem.  So if you go from a locked down 6 screw (which you locked down because it wouldnt stay in tune anyway) to a floating Floyd, you notice a tonal difference.  Duh.  I also hear this old chestnut all the time:  "well when you break a string the floyd goes out of tune" well no shit, when you break a string on any floating trem it goes out of tune, that has nothing to do with a FLoyd.  I use 13-62 or 14-66 strings at standard EADGBE pitch, and even my stop tails go out of tune when I break a string due to the change in neck tension. 

I work on guitars as part of my living, I can get damn near any trem system worth a crap to stay in tune exceedingly well with proper setup, graphtech nut, and locking tuners (excluding the Stetsbar, which still has too much internal friction).  You *DO NOT* need any "lube", "nut sauce", etc for that to be true, and if you are using that stuff, you aren't doing the wood any favors and you're making a mess to cover up a problem somewhere else, probably a sharp edge on the bridge or saddle or an improperly cut nut. 

The brass block upgrade on the floyd has been the best upgrade I've ever done on my guitars. I gotta thank Budd for recommending it to me a few years ago. Now it's the first thing I do when I get a new guitar with a floyd.
Title: Re: Stratocaster tuning secret
Post by: RayBarbeeMusic on March 03, 2014, 07:01:59 pm
What is in the video works........until you bend a string.  Then that string goes out of tune, and to get it back, you have to dive bomb to reset. 

So while it "works" in terms of being able to dive bomb and come back in pretty decent tune, it does not work in terms of being able to play regularly and expect the guitar to stay in tune without whacking the bar to reset it. 

IMO, that doesn't qualify as really working.  I wouldn't tolerate that from any other Trem and say it "worked" in a tolerable way. 

There are 6 screw replacements like the Super Vee Bladerunner or the Wudtone unit that do take care of the issues with a 6 screw trem.   
Title: Re: Stratocaster tuning secret
Post by: wxs3 on March 04, 2014, 12:20:48 pm
Sorry Ray, but I totally disagree.  On the strats that I have done this on, I have not experienced the issues that you refer to.  I've had friends that have unblocked their trems to try this and have had positive results.
Title: Re: Stratocaster tuning secret
Post by: RayBarbeeMusic on April 03, 2014, 12:28:43 am
I'd have to see it to believe it.  I will work either for bombing or bending not both.  Seen literally over a thousand 6 screw strats, never seen one with stock bridge that stayed in tune for real, the way any decent 2 post trem will. 
Title: Re: Stratocaster tuning secret
Post by: wxs3 on April 03, 2014, 10:18:51 am
It's worked for me and for some others, sorry it didn't work for you.  Been playing for 40 plus years, it worked for me.
Title: Re: Stratocaster tuning secret
Post by: darkbluemurder on April 03, 2014, 10:33:39 am
What is in the video works........until you bend a string.  Then that string goes out of tune, and to get it back, you have to dive bomb to reset. 

So while it "works" in terms of being able to dive bomb and come back in pretty decent tune, it does not work in terms of being able to play regularly and expect the guitar to stay in tune without whacking the bar to reset it. 

IMO, that doesn't qualify as really working.  I wouldn't tolerate that from any other Trem and say it "worked" in a tolerable way. 

There are 6 screw replacements like the Super Vee Bladerunner or the Wudtone unit that do take care of the issues with a 6 screw trem.

That was exactly the problem I had with the only guitar that had a Kahler Professional on it, and it was the reason I sold this guitar. Never had such a problem with a Floyd Rose equipped guitar no matter how much I tortured it.

I have one guitar with a 6 screw Wilkinson which works very well for moderate bar use - no tuning issues at all. I have a Callaham on another guitar which I had to block and disconnect the bar because it would not stay in tune even if I only got near the bar - but that could have been due to other culprits than the system itself.

Cheers Stephan 
Title: Re: Stratocaster tuning secret
Post by: Lewguitar on April 09, 2014, 07:36:24 pm
I'm a big fan of the angled claw and Carl's method of setting up a Strat's tremolo.

It works for me and it's easier than other methods.

I was flamed and insulted for posting that same video and for suggesting it over on the Seymour Duncan Forum.

Lots of guys insist they can achieve the same results without angling the claw.

Maybe they can.  Maybe they can't.

Maybe they can actually play the guitar.  Maybe they can't.

You never know who's for real and who's not on the internet.

The idea of Carl's method is to increase the tension of the springs on the bass side of the block.

Eric Johnson does something similar but achieves that goal by using four springs: three on the bass side and one on the treble side and he leaves out the spring that would be under the E/B string.

Title: Re: Stratocaster tuning secret
Post by: harmonics on January 12, 2018, 07:01:53 am
i did that but my luthier told me it was not necessary

it is made to make some special bends with the bar like Jeff Beck

a tuning secret is to have a good nut
graphite for example
locking tuners like SPerzel
the same distance in  mm that the Jeff Beck signature has or to do carefully what the manual says in mm for the tremolo between the tremolo unit and the body to make all the effects with th bar as a floating tremolo
After that, there are not big problems except for the big big bends
Title: Re: Stratocaster tuning secret
Post by: HarlowTheFish on August 08, 2019, 02:41:16 am
I like both, but for different reasons.
The Tele IMO is an incredible songwriting tool, especially if you get one without extra switching and stuff, because it gives you a good but simple palette of sounds that work well in basically every context without having too much stuff and giving you option paralysis.
The Strat on the other hand is more of a performance player, for when you have music that you want to pick up and play, because (IMO) it's a much more comfortable guitar that really just gets out of your way (especially the Superstrats and variants thereof I'm a big fan of). That's not to say a Tele is uncomfortable or hard to play, it's just that the slab body with no contouring and the different balance make it a lot more utilitarian.
In your shoes? I'd grab a higher-end Tele (the simpler design I think benefits from higher-quality woods and hardware a lot, and you'll be missing out in a cheaper model - American Standards are a pretty great model to go for) to use as-is and once I got comfortable with using it and wanted something a little different, I'd put together my own Strat. A good partscaster can be an incredibly versatile and personal instrument, and personally I think the Strat makes the best partscaster due to the sheer mountain of stuff you can put in them.
I will say too if you're an acoustic player you could pick up a used Am Standard and fit it with a piezo pickup to bridge the gap while you get used to it. I know you can find a few piezo-equipped Teles on Reverb pretty regularly.