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DimarzioForum.Com => Gear Closet => Topic started by: FeinMusic on August 08, 2009, 11:31:20 AM

Title: Compression?
Post by: FeinMusic on August 08, 2009, 11:31:20 AM
How do you guys feel about it?  I'm looking for that extra sustain but most pedals reem way over the top with the dynamic squashing.  Call me old fashioned but I like the gratification of beating the tar out of my strings and hearing the pick attack.  Anyone care to share their experiences?  Perhaps someone can suggest a more subtle compression pedal or an alterative pedal for sustain.  Also does anyone have experience using limiter pedals?  Thank you!
Title: Re: Compression?
Post by: mi2tom on August 08, 2009, 03:36:13 PM
I hate it to the max, compressor gives you sustain but takes away your picking dynamics. And I can't live without picking dynamics. I heard some people  says it helps your picking technique though.
Title: Re: Compression?
Post by: CityofBlindingLights on August 08, 2009, 05:06:57 PM
How do you guys feel about it?  I'm looking for that extra sustain but most pedals reem way over the top with the dynamic squashing.  Call me old fashioned but I like the gratification of beating the tar out of my strings and hearing the pick attack.  Anyone care to share their experiences?  Perhaps someone can suggest a more subtle compression pedal or an alterative pedal for sustain.  Also does anyone have experience using limiter pedals?  Thank you!

I'm actually not a big fan of compression, I'm with you there.
Title: Re: Compression?
Post by: kareemb0 on August 08, 2009, 08:01:01 PM
Most pedal compressors are terrible, that's the problem.

There's only one compact pedal compressor that I bet you will ALL love.

It's the Carl Martin Compressor. It does magic for cleans.
Title: Re: Compression?
Post by: buddroyce on August 08, 2009, 08:19:25 PM
Compressors really kill pick dynamics. However, if you want to increase your sustain there are other ways to do it. It just depends on the type of guitar you're using. If it's a hard tail les paul, the only thing you can do is upgrade the hardware to lighter and more resonant parts. If your guitar has a trem you can always install a larger brass block or something like an esp arming adjuster. Adding more springs also helps the tone as you're transferring more energy to the body.

Lowering your pickups a bit also helps as it cuts back on the magnetic pull, but if you already have an airbucker or something with low magnet pull to begin with then it doesn't matter.
Title: Re: Compression?
Post by: FeinMusic on August 08, 2009, 08:42:29 PM
It's mainly the dirty I'm concerned with.  I could use an extra gain stage for when I really want more sustain
Title: Re: Compression?
Post by: Analog_Kid on August 15, 2009, 03:18:42 AM
I'm gonna throw-in here in a very opposite direction. I'm assuming that most of what the convo is referencing is compression pedals, such as the good ol' MXR Dynacomp. That's a great pedal for added sustain, and is a god-send for Metal players looking for extremely tight rhythm tone. Absolutely! However, let's take a more studio-oriented approach to dynamic compression, as opposed to saturation compression, for a moment.

Most pedal compressors are designed around saturation. What a saturation-oriented compressor does is gives that added sustain and fluid, creamy tone to a guitar sound,(especially useful for hot humbucking pickups). As stated by other posters, it also robs the overall sound of pick dynamics; which are crucial to many player's style. The reason being that, in many ways, it over-compensates for dynamics in favor of this type of tone. Especially if cranked-up to where you can really hear its' effect on the tone of an amp/guitar signal.

The true point of a compressor, in the dynamic sense, is to make everything level - regardless of frequency. In other words, for guitar purposes: The higher notes from the unwound strings are equally balanced, in output, from the lower wound strings. A dynamics compressor sets a volume ceiling, across the board, for all frequencies. In many ways, this is a type of compression that should be in the chain but NOT be heard,(anyone who has experienced volume drop-offs due to over-compressing the signal knows what I mean here). This is the type of compression I use in my rig via a dbx 266XL.

For my part, I designed my rig around my direct line,(guitar to rig to direct boxes - in stereo - to the house) acoustic guitar work many years ago. It has proven useful in my electric guitar sound as well but entirely because it was designed around dynamics instead of saturation,(creating an interesting hybrid rig that can truly enhance the guitar tone, overall, instead of being for any particular style or guitar type). I run the 266XL at a 2:1 compression ratio, with attack and release at about half-way. I DO NOT use the soft knee feature, as that very much tends to bleed over into the pick-attack-killing area as described previously.

In other words, I use my compressor very much the way it would be used in recording. I really wish more players would explore this style of compression, as opposed to using it to over-saturate their tone. It would take a lot of the "mystery" of compression out of the way for many folks. The key with compression, in my mind, is that it should make a difference in overall level without being heard.
Title: Re: Compression?
Post by: alfaromeo90 on August 16, 2009, 09:28:11 PM
compression can work really well in certain settings.  Compression is used very well by guitarists such as Jimmy Page and David Gilmour, and both sound as expressive as anyone.   If you've got a lot of instruments to cut thru, or one or two big bandwidth hogs (e.g. another distorted guitarist) then compression has all positives.  In my opinion it's important to use it subtly and well. 

I used to like the old Boss cs-2 foot pedal compressor - haven't used it in many years.

http://www.proguitarshop.com/index.php?CategoryID=40  - lots of options!

I'm on the lookout for a 2nd hand Rockman mini rack compressor.


Title: Re: Compression?
Post by: JAMESDP100 on August 22, 2009, 10:01:19 PM
Heres a good way to increase the sustain of your signal: just switch on an over drive pedal like
a tube screamer set the drive all the way up the tone to your preferences and the output low and
that will give you a nice lead tone with plenty of sustain. Just make sure its an over drive
and not a distortion.
Title: Re: Compression?
Post by: FeinMusic on August 23, 2009, 09:31:36 AM
I think I'm going with that little green Guyatone pedal.  One of my mentors recommended it as the most transparent thing he's ever played and I hope to prove it right.  I've got a stock TS9DX going too.  From what I can tell the thing doesn't even need to be modded
Title: Re: Compression?
Post by: mi2tom on August 24, 2009, 02:57:19 AM
Natural tube crank compression is the best. Try playing a fulltube amp in full blast and you'll get natural tube compression just like how steve vai like it ;)
Title: Re: Compression?
Post by: FeinMusic on August 24, 2009, 02:16:20 PM
If I had the venue to crank I would.  Or the love of attenuators
Title: Re: Compression?
Post by: mi2tom on August 26, 2009, 01:24:56 AM
The problem is always the venue, attenuators often change the tone a bit actually but it works :)
Title: Re: Compression?
Post by: alfaromeo90 on August 26, 2009, 04:24:13 AM
caref ul of the decibels of power tube overload.  You make the sound guy's task very difficult.  If you're playing outdoor venue with 80,000 capacity then no problem. :)
Title: Re: Compression?
Post by: devastone on August 26, 2009, 05:37:35 PM
A dynamics compressor sets a volume ceiling, across the board, for all frequencies.

Technically that is called "limiting", but yes, that is the most transparent way to use a compressor. 

I don't use a compressor, but I can't say that all compression is bad (although overused on many of today's recordings).  It's like anything else, moderation is the key. 

<$0.02,
-R
Title: Re: Compression?
Post by: jkrguitar on August 27, 2009, 03:36:54 PM
Some compression on cleans can be good(as in a dedicated compressor), compression on gain sounds are a little redundant.  As guitarists, we all like some compression.
 A lot of folks think badly about it, then crank the gain knob or are boosting the front end of their amps with od/boost pedals(which, gives you compression lol).  We all crave that cranked tube tone, which gives you.......some compression.  A lot of amps are more compressed by nature and you're not really thinking about it.

If you're wanting more sustain/compression....I suggest a clean boost in front of the amp(if it's tube) and driving the front end to taste.  For the price/bang for the buck...try the MXR microamp.  That will get you there.
Title: Re: Compression?
Post by: FeinMusic on November 04, 2009, 01:18:36 AM
To revisit this topic I would like to say I've been using a Guyatone Compressor and I'm very happy with it.

City this one might be good for you because it has a switch that blends the dry signal into the compression and even without that engaged the thing is uber transparent.

Combine that with low pedalboard real estate and you've got a little fella that is just made of win

Also it's one of the few pedals I'd ever call adorable :madness:
Title: Re: Compression?
Post by: customguitar on November 06, 2009, 02:13:27 PM
I use both the boss cs-2 and a digitech digicomp and i can say the digicomp squeezes more than anything thing.  I like the cs-2 more for sustain but when i need an acoustic type sound, i lean on the digicomp even tho its cheap
Title: Re: Compression?
Post by: mi2tom on November 06, 2009, 11:06:18 PM
I hate compression if in dirty mode but I like compression on clean settings, I hate anything that can kill picking dynamics.
Title: Re: Compression?
Post by: FeinMusic on November 09, 2009, 11:13:46 AM
That's what I'm trying to say about the Guyatone.

Granted I haven't tried one of those schmancy comp units with the vacuum tubes but the blend switch is totally worth looking into because it helps preserve picking dynamics which is what everyone including myself hates about most compression units.  And for under a hundred dollars the thing is practically begging you
Title: Re: Compression?
Post by: CityofBlindingLights on November 10, 2009, 01:03:33 AM
I hate Compression.

I prefer my sustain to come naturally, through the guitar's vibration. Nothing can compare to that imho.
Title: Re: Compression?
Post by: palaceplayer on June 17, 2010, 06:02:15 PM
this is an old topic.....still interesting though.

I've started to use a lot of clean tones and need the extra sustain that would come from a distorted tone....I also need a slight boost in volume

I use a pigtronix philosopher's tone. It does color your tone very slightly and affect dynamics. But only in the most extreme settings.

The barber compressor is also very good and even more transparent. But it doesn't do the infinite sustain thing as well as the pigtronix.
Title: Re: Compression?
Post by: T-Funk Ian on July 14, 2010, 06:12:42 AM
this is an old topic.....still interesting though.

I've started to use a lot of clean tones and need the extra sustain that would come from a distorted tone....I also need a slight boost in volume

I use a pigtronix philosopher's tone. It does color your tone very slightly and affect dynamics. But only in the most extreme settings.

The barber compressor is also very good and even more transparent. But it doesn't do the infinite sustain thing as well as the pigtronix.

I actually just picked up a Pigtronix Philosophers Tone.  I like it a lot for my clean sound but it added a bit too much noise running into a distortion pedal.  I've found that the Mad Professor Forest Green Comp is better for me in that department.  I sent it to "SUSTAIN" mode and hit it somewhat hard.
Title: Re: Compression?
Post by: slugworth on July 14, 2010, 09:04:14 AM
Most pedal compressors are terrible, that's the problem.

This.  The commonly used compressor pedals (MXR, etc.) are crap if you ask me.  And the result for many guitarists who try these awful compressor pedals is that they don't understand how good compression can take a good tone and make it a great one, especially for cleans, because the crap compressors they've tried are robbing them of their precious dynamics.  And they're right. 

One rule of thumb for compressor pedals is if it's got less than 3 knobs, definitely avoid it.  For me, the key to getting a good compressed tone is delaying the attack, so the front end of your notes stays unaffected (leaving your picking dynamics alone for the most part) while still giving you the creamy saturation that you want without adding gain.  But just because a comp pedal has 3+ knobs doesn't mean it's going to be good.  Even with an attack rate control, many pedal compressors still suck ass, because they don't attack smoothly enough.  Like you hear a plunging sound when the compressor kicks in.  That's not what you want, either.

Again I have to give Rocktron some love here.  Their pedals are all pro rack gear pedigree, and their compressor pedals are fabulous, at least with the attack turned up high (to make it kick in more slowly).  No weird plunging as the compressor kicks in, and it affects short notes and picking dynamics little if any, while still giving all the deliciousness to the notes and chords you do want to sustain.  Plus they're fairly cheap.
Title: Re: Compression?
Post by: palaceplayer on July 14, 2010, 01:38:59 PM


I actually just picked up a Pigtronix Philosophers Tone.  I like it a lot for my clean sound but it added a bit too much noise running into a distortion pedal.  I've found that the Mad Professor Forest Green Comp is better for me in that department.  I sent it to "SUSTAIN" mode and hit it somewhat hard.

I use the PT 90% on clean parts. Not cause it doesn't sound good on dirty parts, but I just think distortion adds a lot of compression anyway. I do however kick it in on dirty parts for some crazy never ending sustain.....switch to the neck pickup and it's almost like your playing a keyboard.
Title: Re: Compression?
Post by: blueman61 on June 13, 2011, 09:06:04 AM
I think of compression as a sound, not a way to increase sustain. Different compressors impart different qualities to the note. One of the reasons I like the Barber Tone Press so much is that it's blend control allows you to dial in the amount of compressed sound in proportion to the straight sound....very useful. Used judiciously, I don't think compression eliminates picking dynamics, I think it changes how one approaches them. I came late to the compression party and used to really hate them until I figured out ways to use them in my playing. Now I love them. The Tone Press  and Analogman Man's Comprosser and Juicer are my personal faves. I've also heard raves about the Diamond Compressor, but haven't tried one yet. of course that's an Optical Compressor which is a different animal from the Ross/Dynacomp clones and the Armstrong Orange Squeezer.   
Title: Re: Compression?
Post by: KH Guitar Freak on June 13, 2011, 05:50:13 PM
I guess people have to understand that each string does not vibrate with equal volume necessarily, not to mention certain double bend notes won't ring out long enough in relation of strings that are not bend or strings being picked in an open position. Thus comes the compressor pedal. I would like to grab a Barber Tone Press someday...
Title: Re: Compression?
Post by: themarzio on September 15, 2011, 10:53:26 AM
I never use compression. the tone should be natural. every touch should be sensible.
Title: Re: Compression?
Post by: HipKitty on September 05, 2016, 11:26:20 PM
Analog Kid is correct. There are a few comps, specifically in a pedal format, that work well with guitars in a true transparent fashion, which allow picking dynamics to shine. They are out there. The key is a low compression ratio with the ability to provide makeup gain and push the front end of the amp a little. I can say, the cheap Chinese pedals won't get you there.
Title: Re: Compression?
Post by: darkbluemurder on September 06, 2016, 03:19:51 AM
The barber compressor is also very good and even more transparent. But it doesn't do the infinite sustain thing as well as the pigtronix.

Another vote for the Barber Tone Press.

Cheers Stephan
Title: Re: Compression?
Post by: darkbluemurder on September 29, 2017, 07:51:48 AM
Funnily enough, I don't like the Tone Press for bass guitar at all. For guitar it's absolutely killer, especially in conncetion with the Barber Direct Drive LG (the low gain variant). For bass guitar I discovered the Mad Professor Forest Green Comp, which seems to make the bass sound better at any setting. But what's even more funny, I don't care for it at all for guitar use.

I have read many good things about the Wampler Ego Comp but never had the chance to play one.

Cheers Stephan
Title: Re: Compression?
Post by: Guitar74 on June 06, 2019, 12:32:52 PM
compression can work really well in certain settings.  Compression is used very well by guitarists such as Jimmy Page and David Gilmour, and both sound as expressive as anyone.   If you've got a lot of instruments to cut thru, or one or two big bandwidth hogs (e.g. another distorted guitarist) then compression has all positives.  In my opinion it's important to use it subtly and well. 

I used to like the old Boss cs-2 foot pedal compressor - haven't used it in many years.

http://www.proguitarshop.com/index.php?CategoryID=40  - lots of options!

I'm on the lookout for a 2nd hand Rockman mini rack compressor.

It's funny that the Dynacomp was mentioned. I actually still have one on my board. Use it a lot. You just have to set it cautiously. Set right, it's one of those pedals that you forget you have on. Set wrong and it is just terrible. That being said, it will probably get replaced with one that has a blend control so I can get back a little dry signal.
Title: Re: Compression?
Post by: Guitar74 on February 26, 2021, 11:02:13 AM
Update. I removed the Dynacomp. After several yrs it just started acting finicky. All of a sudden, it sounded great with single coils but any kind of humbucker, and it just went into suck mode, for lack of a better term, where it would clamp down on the signal so tightly that humbuckers would almost disappear.

I looked at a few, tried out a few, and after exhaustively trying three different guitars (my Highway 1 strat with a jb jr and factory singles, my Big Apple Strat, and one of my RG Ibanez) I finally settled on, of all things, another two knob compressor. This time it was the J.Rockett Squeegee. Why? Because you can actually set it to where it evens out humbuckers being full on, or split. It doesn't go into freak out limiting if it sees a hot signal from a humbucker. And it, at least with the low settings I have, it just balances everything out, and gives my clean that nice little sparkle that I love about compression. When I hit my distortion I don't even notice it. And set this low, I can still be dynamic. It doesn't kill your nuances unless you set it to.
Title: Re: Compression?
Post by: darkbluemurder on October 10, 2023, 04:42:52 AM
I used to hate compressors until I found the Barber Tone Press. The difference is in the blend control which retains the attack of the direct signal but blends in the sustained signal. Love it for clean tones. I don't use compression on overdriven tones normally.

Cheers Stephan