DiMarzio Forum

DimarzioForum.Com => The Pickup Place => Topic started by: Marshall Law on July 28, 2012, 05:56:40 PM

Title: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: Marshall Law on July 28, 2012, 05:56:40 PM
I wanted to hear from others which pu's they tried that left them  :P
for me it was and keep in mind this is ONLY MY OPINION NOT A CONCRETE FACT
First off is the super d(yeah i know it is known as a classic and it is not a bad pu but i felt it was rather plain sounding,no real magic for me
The X2N wow what i got from it was hot output ,hot output and more hot output but that was it!)very bland EQ
the screamin demon(another pu that i had high hopes for but left me asking thats all it is?)
the steves special(now to be fair this is a specialty pu in that it was developed for guys that need a midrange reduction because their amp is very middy(ala MESA BOOGIE)
the duncan 59(wow i certainly hope that this is not the tone of the pu that some pay thousands of dollors for when they buy a real deal PAF) this one was very boring to me, Plain jane!
duncan PG another pu i bought thinking this is goin to blow me away after reading all the great things about it! NOT! LOL!
Duncan invader(can you say FUGLY LOOKING and MUD BOMB in one sentence!)sold this one so quick i for got i even owned it! LOL!
there are others but those are the main ones,and while i am listing the bad ones for me,ones that surprised me were the double whammy(this should have stayed in production, and the virtual hot PAF's(killer models that i think were better than the 36th that replaced them)
Megadrive( wow this is a steve special without the midrange taken away real nice! great drive and eq!) how about you what models made you say "why did i buy this?"
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: mesa0131 on July 28, 2012, 07:08:02 PM
Great Dislike's:
EMG 81/85 (altho i didnt buy them, they were stock in two of my guitars) I was happy to have them when i bought the guitars new, then realized how bland and useless they are once my ear for tone matured

D Activator A cheap pickup, no real great EQ, just harsh upper mids/highs and couldn't work out in 5 of my guitars. Not a good sign.

Crunch Lab I didn't mind this one so much, but when I swapped a D-sonic in its place I realized how mundane the CL was. a rolled off EQ and more gain, didn't sit well with my ears. Don't miss it, wouldn't buy it again

Super 3 (Came Stock in a MIJ Super Strat) NOT a real hair metal/thrash fan. Mids out the wha-zoo

SuperD Sounded great in a cheap Jackson JS30RR V, but not great enough to keep it around.

D Activator X A very VERY powerful pickup, I liked the EQ in my baritone, but I don't play breakdowns inside of breakdowns (a la Acacia Strain/Oceano) and my baritone sounds more than thick enough with my go to pickup (dsonic) so i had no real use for it.

Cruiser Neck Very Boring, turned me off of ceramic dual blade single coil pickups. Lifeless, quiet... Turned my ear more towards HS/VV and standard single coil pickups.

Liquifire I realize what this pickup was made to do and it just isn't my bag at all... Will have a Paf Pro replacement.

Honorable Mentions:

D Sonic Clear thick organic and just the right amount of output

Paf Pro Perfection for neck applications with D Sonic

Virtual Solo Great in the middle with higher output pickups!

HS-2 Well just awesome anywhere, series or split!

Twang King Neck Surprisingly amazingly warm tele neck tone! Glad i went with it over all else. It has made me love playing neck pickups!!!

Twang King Bridge Great Tele tone, very spanking, and takes overdrive really well! I love mine! For when you REALLY need to twang

G&L MFD ASAT Special Pickups Overwound single coils, minimal hum, and great output and tone. Compared to my tele this thing wins hands down. Very thick! But they are completely different animals. I would compare these pickups to a cleaner sounding P90, with all that great qualities when overdriven or gained out on a good amp.



Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: Joey Voltage on July 28, 2012, 07:43:13 PM
DActivator - is the top of my list of disappointment.  I'm still messing with it though.  I was really hoping for something clean, and accurate, but hot and smooth at the same time.

super 3 - generally like it but I like it in some guitars better, and it was my first DiMarzio model, sounds better if you have a floyd, a basswood body, and a maple neck and fingerboard.  I always run hot and cold with it though, I love the dark sing for some things, but at times I find it kinda boxy.

Fred - HATED it as a bridge pickup, which i originally bought it for - had a weird dense character, and I was really expecting just a subtly different paf pro.  Recently i auditioned for a local prog/thrash band and the guitar i had gotten used to playing had a hum from hell in the neck, i swapped this in on grounds of maybe getting a more singing neck sound, and was pleasantly surprised it stil had a very nice glassy sheen to it. LOVE it as a neck pickup, works well with a tone zone, which is what I have in the bridge of this guitar.

PAF Pro - Default neck pickup, but a little wimpy for a bridge pickup though, especially for floating locking trem guitars. So it gets an A as a great neck pup, but I don't like it as a bridge pick up.

Steves Special - Tried to like it twice, and at one point I did like it briefly, but its not my thing, might sound good for some detuned stuff, haven't tried it for that, might screw with it though.  Didn't care too much for the plasticky treble it had. 

Jackson J90C, I liked this one iirc, had a nice muscular midrange, wish I still had it for comparison. I ended up replacing it with a super 3, and then put it back a couple years later and thought it was everything I was hoping the super 3 was. Although I owned the version with the philister and slugs.  They also made a dual slug version they encased in a plastic cover like an emg.

Humbucker from hell - I like this one alot too for the neck, but it didn't quite have enough oomph for me for it to be a staple.  Its kind of picky about guitars too, and I couldn't get it to work for me as a general blend, like say a paf pro for the neck. Which surprisingly works well with most.

Tone Zone - One of my favorites!  have never had a problem with muddy, farty low end.  It seems to work very well with my picking. And I love the mid punch. 

Air Norton - Meh, I don't feel one way or the other about it, might un-air it and give it a try.

Air zone - cool fat grind, didn't quite have the drive I was looking for at the time though, might give it another try.

EVO - Just couldn't make them work for me, or my guitars, actually sounded great in a real alder bodied jem though.

Ibanez V7/V8, boring, came stock with a RG1570

Ibanez inf's - belong in the garbage

1997 Peavey wolfgang stocks - Neck pick sounds good, fat, with good drive, bridge pickup is weak, and lacking in comparison though.

Hs3 have them stock on a YJM.  I LOVE the sound of these.  they are weak in output, but make up for it in the tone dept.

ToneZone S, was okay, but not like the real thing. But I don't know how you could expect it to be. 

Fast Track 1, I think I liked it, but I was just a teenager when I had it so I dunno

Chopper, mated it with the TZs, not bad as a neck pick up, but wasnt overly thrilled with it either.
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: mesa0131 on July 28, 2012, 07:53:54 PM
Joey! I was confused on which you liked and which you disliked... or if you kind of liked some but after all got rid of it...
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: SouthendSteve on July 28, 2012, 07:58:10 PM
Area '61 were a bit thin. In my opinion, the output was a bit on the low side, but that's more for me than anyone else.
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: Joey Voltage on July 28, 2012, 08:06:12 PM
I'll go back and edit my post and put in more details of the definite hates and likes.  Some of it is because also that some of the qualities I hated or liked about each model might be different with me today because my playing (and the mechanics there of) had(s) drastically changed  between owning them.
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: Commander Chaos on July 28, 2012, 08:54:42 PM
The TZ and Evolutions have never sounded remotely good to me. The worst of all though is the Duncan JB, It has got to be the thinnest sounding pup ive ever tried.

I'm off and on with the Paf Pro, some days it sounds awesome and others it sounds weird to me, could be the wah sound it has
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: KH Guitar Freak on July 28, 2012, 11:43:16 PM
LOL! I've never really dislike any pickup out there really. However, I never liked those Seymour Duncan JBs. Too bright sounding, and just don't care for the overall tone. Also, not really a big fan of those Seymour Duncan '59s. A bit too mid scooped for my tastes...
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: eggman on July 28, 2012, 11:55:01 PM
Howdy,

 Less than impressed? Seymour Suncan '59s. The neck was boomy and the bridge too trebly; seemingly no mids.
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: tonejam on July 29, 2012, 05:05:26 AM
Gotta agree with Mesa, thought the Cruiser neck would do wonders for Strat middle pickup. It's "OK".......but doesn't inspire. I'm now looking for a HS-2.
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: Marshall Law on July 29, 2012, 05:20:00 AM
Hey this thread is turning out better than i expected! I see there is a lot of JB dislike,which i can understand because it has a rep to be a love or hate model.
I have a love/hate relationship with it, some days it rocks and some days it sounds very Meh!
I did realize that gear and humans are weird,  let me try to explain, sometimes when i plug in i get a tone that makes me want to keep playing all day and night,it sounds that good then sometimes i come back to that SAME rig,settings an everythig that made me smile the very day before and hate the tone???
How can this be?? LOL!  it is like a little gremlin comes in the middle of the night and messes with my settings or something! LOL!
Btw, where is bud and lone phantom? i was hoping they would participate in this thread? I know LP is bloggin for duncan latley which is cool,he has a new mod to try it is where you use a mini switch to change between a 250K pot and a 500K pot just by flickin a dpdt switch, great discovery! http://www.seymourduncan.com/blog/tips-and-tricks/create-a-two-stage-potentiometer/
he is the mad scientist with these things! LOL
 Lone phantom is the guy that helped me love the tone zone,he has a cap mod that rolls off the real big low end of the tone zone and it is great if you think the TZ is too bassy in your guitar.
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: Joey Voltage on July 29, 2012, 01:54:14 PM

 Lone phantom is the guy that helped me love the tone zone,he has a cap mod that rolls off the real big low end of the tone zone and it is great if you think the TZ is too bassy in your guitar.

you can take that mod even further if you dont use your tone pot. 

regarding the JB you can also try and move the voicing by increasing it intrinsic coil capacitance, (self capacitance/parasitic capacitance).  I mentioned the process in the D Activator thread, and you can also make it adjustable too, as well as test out many different values with a few alligator clips.  probably will work better for a jb since it has mirror coils to the best of my knowledge, and not dual res.

There are other things you can do as well to passively alter things,  as well as actively,  although most people  don't like to fuss with batteries
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: mesa0131 on July 29, 2012, 02:39:42 PM
I think if you have a pickup you really like, but you want to tailor it more in your own person taste, then modding is great. But to take a pickup you genuinely don't like and tinker with it, may just leave you feeling like you wasted your time. Slim chance you'll like even after all that work and effort, you may just feel like youve gone insane (like i did with the D activator)
Altho I did like hte A8 mag swap in the D-activator it still have the same overall high end spike that i really did not like. Seem scratchy and harsh... And since my rig sounds great with other pickups i use, I aint changing it for a D Activator
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: Joey Voltage on July 29, 2012, 03:12:32 PM
I think if you have a pickup you really like, but you want to tailor it more in your own person taste, then modding is great. But to take a pickup you genuinely don't like and tinker with it, may just leave you feeling like you wasted your time. Slim chance you'll like even after all that work and effort, you may just feel like youve gone insane (like i did with the D activator)
Altho I did like hte A8 mag swap in the D-activator it still have the same overall high end spike that i really did not like. Seem scratchy and harsh... And since my rig sounds great with other pickups i use, I aint changing it for a D Activator

yeah I feel the same about that particular model.  There are some qualities I like about it and I can see how it might be good for certain applications which is why I haven't dumped them yet (that and they are yellow with black poles which might make it a bit tough), but generally yes I agree, engineering a solution to circumvent a very easy problem is seldom worth the effort.

For the cap thing though, literally took me 5 min to rig up so I could test in real time, and although It didn't change how I felt, at least I know.  so it was worth it in that regard.  although the flip side is that simple modification to something you do like can lead you to more tonal possibilities.
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: mesa0131 on July 29, 2012, 05:14:52 PM
Indeed! As is why I'm glad i have A8 mags, and they are fun to drop into A5 pickups, just adds some output and boosts the lows and highs a smidgin. I did this today a few minutes ago in a '91 Ibanez V1 neck pickup and man did it fix that pickup right up! The added power and clarity was just what that thing needed.
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: LonePhantom on July 29, 2012, 11:16:31 PM
It's funny the comments people make on the JB. It was designed to be used with 250K pots, so with 500K you will get bright and nasely tones.

Use a 250K and you get the sort of tone you would expect. That's why I came up with the two stage potentiometer. Just tried it out on the weekend with a JB (finally), and it's subtle, but the 250K does give a better low end response, and the mids are tamed enough. That classic sound is there.

The Tone Zone in basswood (stock) was a little too much for me. The low end was just too muddy. The mods I tried out and documented made it better, but it still wasn't quite enough. It's a whole other story in alder though. I absolutely love it!

PAF Pro in the bridge has a great tone, but just too weak for me. I can see why  it was popular back in the late eighties though. Throw it in the neck and it's magic though. A8 magnet swap in either position is awesome though.

I'm still making up my mind on the Air Norton. I like it enough, but not sure if it's one of "the ones".

Dominion neck and bridge - my current favourites. They just suit the music I play so well. Tight, defined, articulate, heavy.

Just loaded up the JB and 59 over the weekend to write about for the SD blog. I'm digging them so far.  I can see why they are a popular combo, they are just so versatile.
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: Marshall Law on July 30, 2012, 07:20:59 PM

 Lone phantom is the guy that helped me love the tone zone,he has a cap mod that rolls off the real big low end of the tone zone and it is great if you think the TZ is too bassy in your guitar.

you can take that mod even further if you dont use your tone pot. 

regarding the JB you can also try and move the voicing by increasing it intrinsic coil capacitance, (self capacitance/parasitic capacitance).  I mentioned the process in the D Activator thread, and you can also make it adjustable too, as well as test out many different values with a few alligator clips.  probably will work better for a jb since it has mirror coils to the best of my knowledge, and not dual res.

There are other things you can do as well to passively alter things,  as well as actively,  although most people  don't like to fuss with batteries

How do you change the capacitance? by adding metal in the pu like the Virtual vintage design?
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: Luijo on July 30, 2012, 07:58:20 PM
You change inductance that way, not capacitance.
For all intent and purposes capacitance in a guitar PU is negligible. You can tinker a little with that but the biggest factor, being a coil, is inductance.
You do get capacitance in the form of the proximity of each turn of wire to the next but if you look around for real detailed PU specs capacitance is minimal.
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: Joey Voltage on July 30, 2012, 09:11:48 PM

For all intent and purposes capacitance in a guitar PU is negligible. You can tinker a little with that but the biggest factor, being a coil, is inductance.
You do get capacitance in the form of the proximity of each turn of wire to the next but if you look around for real detailed PU specs capacitance is minimal.

Keep in mind Inductance is only one factor as well!, be it a guitar pickup, or output transformer.  in a guitar pickup capacitance, equivalent series resistance, and inductance all work together in creating a tank circuit (LCR filter), the equivalent series resistance more effects the Q of the filter.  For all intents and purposes these factors are what gives the pickup (more accurately each coil, the values of which are then determined depending on how you connect the coils) its resonance frequency, (frequencies in the case of the dual resonance designs).  Artificially increasing capacitance just as increasing inductance will shift the resonance frequency lower.  increasing composite winding capacitance is exactly what a tone control does, only a tone control does so drastically because a very high value of capacitance is typically used for a tone control, shifting the resonance frequency way low.  In real life it's gets more complicated, but thats the basics

You change inductance that way, not capacitance.

Exactly, the logic is the same, and in the case of the virtual vintage tech, to increase one parameter only without the others being affected in the process.  It's not as simple as that, but that is the hope.  The same applies again to audio transformer design since I used it as an example above.  one way to increase primary inductance without having to increase turns in an audio output transformer (applies to all transformers not just output) is to add more metal - increase the number of laminates in the stack, but it only goes so far. I can elaborate more if anybody wants
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: Luijo on July 30, 2012, 09:39:32 PM
As I said in my earlier post all of them are factors, but being a PU a pair of coils the main factor in it is its inductance, since it is an inductive circuit, not a capacitive one. That's one of the reasons pole piece material and shape as well as some extra metal in the coils like the DMZ V V technology have such an effect in the sound of PUs. You don't see manufacturers tinkering with caps inside PUs for that same reason, although you could use them as filters like other guys around here to mod the TZ.
Being so is the reason some manufacturers publish inductance values for their products but none of them publish capacitance values. The most common published figure is the resistance values as it is a figure most people can relate to and can measure with equipment easy to have access to, not the case with inductance since it requires a very specific meter, like the Extech LCR meter which is commonly used by boutique winders  for quality control of their products and experimentation.
Capacitors in a tone control don't increase "composite winding capacitance", they just shunt highs to ground and the pot controls how much of the original signal you send through it. In fact, the tone control cap is isolated from the capacitance of the windings by the value of the tone pot itself in the most common wiring used.
Please explain more about the real life complications on this matter, being an electrical engineer myself for over 20 years I'm quite interested in the subject.
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: Joey Voltage on July 31, 2012, 02:22:54 AM
being an electrical engineer myself for over 20 years I'm quite interested in the subject.
Cool! what discipline of EE?
As I said in my earlier post all of them are factors, but being a PU a pair of coils the main factor in it is its inductance, since it is an inductive circuit, not a capacitive one.
Capacitive, inductive, both play a role and since we are primarily concerned with how it is applicable to AC it is a "reactive" circuit.  Inductance alone cant determine everything, it is merely one piece, or one note of the triad (did I just go there?, that was dorky!)

That's one of the reasons pole piece material and shape as well as some extra metal in the coils like the DMZ V V technology have such an effect in the sound of PUs. You don't see manufacturers tinkering with caps inside PUs for that same reason,

Well one reason: internal inclusion of a physical capacitor is not really practical nor discrete :) - not exactly an easy thing to physically include/encase. two that being said, and like I said earlier inductance is the easier of the three parameters to physically control within the case size without affecting the other three, and more importantly one you can be sneaky and discrete about ;D.  you have a couple of choices, you can increase inductance by increasing turns, which means you have use thinner wire, for the same physical coil size, but this as a side effect also more drastically changes the other two of the three parameters, both DCR, and capacitance increases which also affects the resonance peak frequency and q, - it's not so easy to control this way, you traded one for the other.  by comparison, increasing more surface area, or more metal, you can effectively increase the inductance for a given coil without increasing turns, or resorting to thinner wire to do so. 

although you could use them as filters like other guys around here to mod the TZ.
Being so is the reason some manufacturers publish inductance values for their products but none of them publish capacitance values. The most common published figure is the resistance values as it is a figure most people can relate to and can measure with equipment easy to have access to, not the case with inductance since it requires a very specific meter, like the Extech LCR meter which is commonly used by boutique winders  for quality control of their products and experimentation.
True, most publish the DCR as it is the most easily relate-able to the end user, and an easy test for anomalies or partial shorts but this is probably by the same token the most useless parameter to give an idea of how something is behaving in context especially if we are talking about reactive context, and MORE importantly how it sounds musically!.  It doesn't tell you a whole lot in reality by itself, just as much as the DC resistance of a speaker tells you.  Most inductance meters will also just measure DC inductance which is no use to us, it will be several times higher to AC.




Capacitors in a tone control don't increase "composite winding capacitance", they just shunt highs to ground and the pot controls how much of the original signal you send through it.
what does AC really see's in this scenario? (small signal ac really does apply!) the pot controls how much of the cap is isolated from the coil, the fact that ts grounded is irrelevant. the resistance between the cap, and the coil retards the caps effect because to AC the resistor is still the higher impedance path, since to anything above the reactive time constant created by the cap and resistance the cap looks like a dead short (one of the reasons tone controls load your signal by virtue of being connected). what happens when the pot is fully clockwise?, the capacitor is in parallel directly across the coils.

I can simulate this part in spice if you wish and post the results, if you think it will help others or the cause at all since the small signal AC will hold up well in sim. not necessarily the losses part due to materials though, which is not so easy for.  The TZ bass mod is not exactly the same thing, that Is just a simple first order high pass filter because of it's position.

In fact, the tone control cap is isolated from the capacitance of the windings by the value of the tone pot itself in the most common wiring used.
Not as easy as that, you have to examine what AC REALLY see's in this scenario through various sweeps in the pot, which is not as cut and dry.

Please explain more about the real life complications on this matter,

Sure.  You touched on it yourself, its not as cut and dry.  the physical properties make a difference as do the materials used.  magnetomotive properties of the assembly have an effect on the real life empirical result as you mentioned,  especially regarding tone which is what we are concerned about really.  I have seen some actually measure the losses in the brass base plate dimarzio uses, and have deemed it a contributing factor. 
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: Luijo on July 31, 2012, 12:35:50 PM
If you sit down and read your own words we're back where we started, and one of the things I said in my first post and you seem to have passed by..
Being this the type of circuit it is, and no matter how many words and spins you throw at it, inductance is still the biggest and most important factor. I didn't say anywhere capacitance doesn't matter, just that it is negligible in this particular case since this is a coil and we're looking at the coil per se and in this case the effect of capacitance in the final product is very little. If you want to focus on the peripherals sure there are other things that influence the result, but that's equal to having a discussion about turbos in cars and ending up talking about aerodynamics...of course both things make the car go faster, but the topic is turbos.
BTW, serious winders use meters that use AC to measure inductance, like the one I mentioned before.
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: Joey Voltage on July 31, 2012, 04:16:59 PM
If you sit down and read your own words we're back where we started, and one of the things I said in my first post and you seem to have passed by..
How so?, I don't believe I'm overlooking what you said, but by the same accord I don't think you understand what I'm saying, or trying to convey.  I'm talking about the primary eq curve of the pickup which is fundamentally dependent  on its resonance frequency(ies), which is an equal product of both coil inductance and self capacitance (winding capacitance).  you cant have the resonance frequency without the capacitance.   I am perfectly willing to run Spice simulations as a visual because they WILL show the fundamental of whats going on.  Losses in the metal parts, and the effect of the magnet not withstanding.  I'm also perfectly willing to scheme out small signal ac models of what goes on externally.  A pickup is not a complicated device, but at the same token it's not just flatly representing what it's picking  up from the strings either.

Being this the type of circuit it is, and no matter how many words and spins you throw at it, inductance is still the biggest and most important factor. I didn't say anywhere capacitance doesn't matter, just that it is negligible in this particular case since this is a coil and we're looking at the coil per se and in this case the effect of capacitance in the final product is very little.
NO it's NOT! 100pf - 200pf like what is found typically in not negligible. The capacitance is an equal in determining the resonance frequency of the coil, Inductance alone, or in conjunction with current generated by moving strings cannot produce an audio filter of any kind.  It's correctly called a reactive circuit, Since we are interested in frequency response at least thats what I'm talking about, we need to look at how it behaves in the AC realm.

If you want to focus on the peripherals sure there are other things that influence the result, but that's equal to having a discussion about turbos in cars and ending up talking about aerodynamics...of course both things make the car go faster, but the topic is turbos.
I'm Simply talking about the resonance frequency which is a tuned filter fundamentally made up of the the inductance and capacitance, and can be influenced externally.  Neither of them are more important than the other when simply talking about the oscillating frequency

breaking it down to a basic level, you can have an inductance of 9h, and a self capacitance of 100pf, and have a resonance frequency of 5Kh as a result.  likewise you can have an inductance of 18H, and a capacitance of 50p and still have the same.

you can have an inductance of 9h 100pf coil , and externally increase capacitance to 200p and you will get 3.8Khz resonance frequency, just as you can have 9H 100pf coil, and increase inductance to 18H, and get the same frequency. both as well as internal and external factors will have an effect on the Q of this circuit, however thats best left out right now.

Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: Luijo on July 31, 2012, 05:41:42 PM
You're missing the main point dude and no matter how many terms and words and formulas you try to throw at it we're back to the same point...capacitance's influence in the case of guitar's PU in minimal compared to other factors.
I'm not saying you are wrong I'm just saying that you're putting too much weight into it.
You can add external inductance, resistance and capacitance (like the Bill Lawrence thingy) but we're still talking about the PU and it's main defining characteristic...it's inductance.
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: mystique1 on July 31, 2012, 06:00:45 PM
+2 on the Cruiser neck. Low output and lacking any sparkle at all.
I've liked all the other DiMarzios I've had though.

Being a Strat player I've tried lots of Noiseless pups.

The Seymour Duncan Everything Axe set was very disappointing, and their Hot Rails too.
All were kinda ok with high gain, but sounded dreadful clean including the Duckbucker.

Fender Vintage Noiseless very thin and weak sounding, Hot Noiseless had harsh upper mids that actually hurt my ears at high volumes, and the SCN's sounded just plain dead.

Used the Gold Lace Sensors on my Strat Plus very happily for many years, but when I tried their new type of Golds, and Hot Golds they seemed weak in output in comparison.

Am very happy with the Virtual Solo/Area 58/Area 58, combination I use now!



Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: Joey Voltage on July 31, 2012, 06:54:56 PM
You're missing the main point dude and no matter how many terms and words and formulas you try to throw at it we're back to the same point
I would say the exact same thing to you, you seem to be missing what I'm really talking about! LOL!  Im not talking about the pickup as if it were a pie chart!.  I'm talking about the just the resonance frequency as dictated only by the coil inductance, and inter winding capacitance.

...capacitance's influence in the case of guitar's PU in minimal compared to other factors.
Having a direct influence on the resonance frequency of the coil, One the biggest aspects that makes up the pickups "Voice" I would say that it's more substantial than your making it out to be.  Negligible is not the word I would use for it.  Plus it is one of the few things the end user easily has control over without dissecting anything.

I'm not saying you are wrong I'm just saying that you're putting too much weight into it.
You can add external inductance, resistance and capacitance (like the Bill Lawrence thingy) but we're still talking about the PU and it's main defining characteristic...it's inductance.

I'm talking about what you can do externally to easily adjust one parameter in order to change a fairly significant aspect of the voice.  Adding capacitance in parallel with the coil will shift (and can do so significantly) the resonance frequency down that cant be refuted.  Thats all I'm sayin'.  It's a mod worth trying.
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: Jerryman on August 04, 2012, 04:46:47 AM
Jazz Neck is one pickup I didnt like. Can't remember why.
I might dry the D-sonic. Right now I have the Crunch Lab in my Jackson  Soloist. Not sure more organic is really what I want in that particular guitar.
I do have an Invader laying around. Is it still the "mud Bomb" even in the bridge of a tremolo.
I don't think a JB is what I like either, even with 250K pots to roll off some of that brittle high end, its missing low end .Good pickup for live mix, but otherwise I'm going to try Ed'd Breed with pickup swap idea.
Dimebucker is great Alder brass block floyd rose  bridge jackson explorer, but can really cut your head off with the treble in other guitars.
Duncan classic stacks were good classic  sounding noiseless strat pickups, but the bottom fell off on one I had paid 75 bucks for, so I ditched the other two quick like.
Much prefer the line of Dimarzio high output singles and humbucker pickups in general..Duncans , with a few exceptions, can really tend to be too bright I think.



Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: MarvinMealer on August 04, 2012, 03:09:16 PM
I love my PAF Pro in my HSS Strat paired with area 67's.  They balance well together.  I'm not sure I'd like the Paf Pro in another guitar like an LP or Jackson.
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: RayBarbeeMusic on August 04, 2012, 05:59:53 PM
Pickups I truly hated:

1) Anything made by EMG.  I know some people love them.  I can't stand them.  I've had them, I've tried to figure out what the appeal is, and I just cannot hear anything appealing there. 

2) Duncan Pearly Gates.  Yuck.  One of the most bland pickups I've ever tried.  It was to tone what eating cardboard is to taste.

3) Dimarzio Super Distortion.  I know a lot of folks seem to love it, I just didn't.  It wasn't nearly as bad as a PG or EMG, but it just didn't have anything I liked about it and given the hype, I expected to like it just a little. 

By the way, 100pf to 250pf isn't insignificant. 
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: Joey Voltage on August 04, 2012, 09:16:38 PM

By the way, 100pf to 250pf isn't insignificant.

 ;) do I  get the neener neener neener rights now?
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: Luijo on August 04, 2012, 10:54:15 PM
Very interesting read, among many others around the net:
http://www.buildyourguitar.com/resources/lemme/index.htm
"Many people measure only the resistance and think they know something about a pickup. But this is a fundamental error. By far the most important quantity is the inductance, measured in Henries. It depends on the number of turns, the magnetic material in the coil, the winding density and the overall geometry of the coil. The resistance and the capacitance don´t have much influence and can be neglected in a first approximation."
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: RayBarbeeMusic on August 05, 2012, 12:22:41 AM
"No, it's not the voltage, its the current!"  "No, it's not the current, its the voltage!" 

Wrong.  It's both.
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: Joey Voltage on August 05, 2012, 01:05:21 AM
Very interesting read, among many others around the net:
http://www.buildyourguitar.com/resources/lemme/index.htm
"Many people measure only the resistance and think they know something about a pickup. But this is a fundamental error. By far the most important quantity is the inductance, measured in Henries. It depends on the number of turns, the magnetic material in the coil, the winding density and the overall geometry of the coil. The resistance and the capacitance don´t have much influence and can be neglected in a first approximation."

I'm sorry dude but i just read it and that article makes it very apparent winding capacitance is very influential in the voice of pickup! And is half of the lc filter equation, it actually backs up my whole point! If you bothered to read what i have been trying to tell you! and it tells you can DRASTICALLY Affect the voice of The pickup by increasing capacitance, which can be done easily.  inductance alone CANNOT create an audio filter, a tuned tuned lc filter in this case, which is significant in voicing the pickup. Capacitance is NOT negligible, and is 50% of the resonance frequency equation... and the guy who wrote that states that as well if read.

You still need to differentiate between how a pickup "sounds", and how it "works" which are over lapping, but different things.  If you are talking about how a pickup functions as a self generating voltage source, capacitance doesn't need to be considered (which I never refuted).

However If you are talking about how a pickups "sounds" which I have been talking about the whole time, and in regards to its resonance frequencies, capacitance is NOT NEGLIGABLE! It is very significant as backed up by the article. It is mathematically half of what makes up the resonance freq.
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: Joey Voltage on August 05, 2012, 01:24:38 AM
"No, it's not the voltage, its the current!"  "No, it's not the current, its the voltage!" 

Wrong.  It's both.
I know you are being anecdotal, but it really does depend on context. 
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: Luijo on August 05, 2012, 01:27:22 AM
Back to square one, I've NEVER said is not important, just that inductance is FAR more important...that's all. You keep doing circles around the point that there are other important things, which I don't deny, just that there is one aspect that is far more important in this particular case. And as you'd just said, it does depend on the context.
If you want to keep dragging this on is fine with me, but this is done for me.
There are more things to discuss that just running around this thread and hijacking it more than it already is.
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: Joey Voltage on August 05, 2012, 03:55:57 AM
Back to square one, I've NEVER said is not important,
I believe you made a blanket statement and said it was a negligible factor ;), which is indeed not true, And in terms of the resonance frequency - something that is pretty significant, it is pretty important (which is the only thing I have been talking about).  You were pretty quick to say that capacitance was insignificant enough that it shouldn't be botherd with, and yet the article you yourself posted encourages the exact opposite to significantly alter the pickups tone.

just that inductance is FAR more important...that's all. You keep doing circles around the point that there are other important things, which I don't deny, just that there is one aspect that is far more important in this particular case. And as you'd just said, it does depend on the context.

But thats the thing, In What particular case? Determining the resonance frequency? What contexts concerning the pickup did you elaborate on?  Whether you want to own up to it or not, you really did make a sweeping statement and spoke in absolutes with out elaboration, and tried to discredit something that is pretty important, which is the only thing in this banter I really have issue with.  What I mean it's all in how you approach it, and you can't quote things in an article, that are conditional and need context, in order to spin things.  For example the quote you used from the article.  Why is capacitance negligible in a first approximation? Well if we are simply talking about a first approximation of what a pickup is/does on a functional basis in terms of an amplifying device - a voltage source into a resistive load, we're more interested in in transfer characteristics, not interested time constants/frequency response. So if your argument is only that inductance is the most influential aspect? Absolutely because it affects both realms.  Is your argument capacitance is neglegable as a blanket statement, because inductance is important? Hell no! it is extremely significant, especially for what I have been talking about the whole time, the article your posted reinforces this too.

 Anyway I'm done too!
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: RayBarbeeMusic on August 06, 2012, 01:36:58 AM
Quote
I know you are being anecdotal, but it really does depend on context. 


No, I'm using an analogy to indicate that I think you are both missing the point.  ALL those things matter, inductance, capacitance, resistance, etc. 

I mod tube amp circuits.  I have thousands and thousands of hours actually in the circuit learning what the affect of this or that is.  Everything matters. 

As for capacitance, I've had EEs swear to my face that you can't hear a 100pf cap.  My response is always the same, which is to pull the largest bill in my wallet out and put it on the table, and say, "wanna bet?".  Of course you can hear 100pf, and feel it, easily.   Thats the difference between thousands of hours actually doing it, and "I think based on what i read in a book and by best guess that.......". 
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: LonePhantom on August 06, 2012, 07:48:24 PM
Talk about going off topic!!!! What was this thread about again??? :lol:
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: Luijo on August 06, 2012, 09:31:32 PM
LOL!!!  ;D
Sorrry!  :-[
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: Joey Voltage on August 06, 2012, 10:42:24 PM

No, I'm using an analogy to indicate that I think you are both missing the point.  ALL those things matter, inductance, capacitance, resistance, etc. 

Actually my point was more about context lol! And regarding specifically the resonance frequency.  Luijo was absolutely right about capacitance being neglegable but only on a conditional basis - when discussing how a pickup acts as a first approximation of transferring energy from the strings and producing an alternating voltage across a resistive load,  but its a very wrong statement if you are making a blanket statement, especially considering a second approximation about its significance to the eq of the pickup, and where the energy gets focused, in which winding capacitance is extremely significant, as inductance as a calculated value by itself can't make the pickup sound like anything.   That article he posted does do a very good job of explaining this though.

What would a pickup sound like with a 9h inductance and a 0.1pf winding capacitance?  That being a scenario where winding capacitance is truley neglegible.  Just what would that sound like?

I mod tube amp circuits.  I have thousands and thousands of hours actually in the circuit learning what the affect of this or that is.  Everything matters. 
Me too! Wanna share some build porn?

As for capacitance, I've had EEs swear to my face that you can't hear a 100pf cap.  My response is always the same, which is to pull the largest bill in my wallet out and put it on the table, and say, "wanna bet?".  Of course you can hear 100pf, and feel it, easily.   Thats the difference between thousands of hours actually doing it, and "I think based on what i read in a book and by best guess that.......".
Well You have to Establish a context for that too to be honest, and not even with just the obvious.  The obvious being Say you have a source impedance of 500k (the junction of a two 1M voltage divider with have about this) and you place a 100pf capacitor from that junction to the return (because I hate the term ground) 100pf is very significant, because not withstanding any other phase shifts you get a first order lowpass filter that is -3db at 3.2k.  but say you are talking 100 ohms, 100pf won't be "directly" audible in the same context because the filter produced is outside the range of human hearing, and an engineer will take that as a "must be Inaudible" gospel, but psycoacoustics are a bitch that way, and not everything is as cut and dry - switch mode power supplies, although the junk they kick up is at very high frequencies will have an audible effect on  a guitar tube amp say which often operates at a pretty narrow frequency range.  One thing I do agree with though is that if the effect is real, it can be measured.
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: Joey Voltage on August 06, 2012, 10:45:37 PM
Talk about going off topic!!!! What was this thread about again??? :lol:

Dude I dunno anymore, other than two assholes arguing about something nobody else on here cares about.
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: crguti on August 07, 2012, 05:15:55 AM
^ one of them is you.
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: Mail2JackButler on August 07, 2012, 08:28:30 AM
EMGs.. the JB (I don't hate the way it sounds.. it just always and only sounds like 1985 to me,, I don't find it particularly flexible.. which is fine if you only want THAT sound)... Steve's Special (just doesn't work for me).. Air Norton (just not a fan)..HS2 (again just not a fan).
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: Joey Voltage on August 07, 2012, 04:02:40 PM
^ one of them is you.

LOL! I'm fully aware.  I'm also realizing this probably isn't the place for anything overly technical either.  might have served a better purpose over at MEF.
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: idsnowdog on August 18, 2012, 03:35:38 PM
Screamin Demon - It sounds great with low gain but sounds honky with high gain.  I think it is poorly described and marketed.  Oddly enough with a ceramic magnet it sounds a lot like a Super II.

Pearly Gates - A PAF with laryngitis.  Way too bright and the bass was farty.

Air Norton - Raspy and bright.  It would make a decent neck pickup for a JB but is way too bright for bridge.

HFH - I didn't like it for a long time until I tried it with a maple neck.  It is not the radical corrective surgery that it is billed to be.  With ebony and rosewood it sounds dark and weak.

Megadrive - Sounds a lot like a passive EMG81.  Unimpressive overall.

EMG81 - It just felt fake.
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: darkbluemurder on July 24, 2014, 10:55:18 AM
Pearly Gates - A PAF with laryngitis.  Way too bright and the bass was farty.

Fully agree with the too bright comment, disagree slightly with the farty comment. Bass on mine was non-existent so I gladly add that one to my list.

Here is my list:

- EMG 81/S/S: they replaced a set of Lawrence OBL pickups and managed to make the guitar sound even thinner. And the added hiss from the active electronics was just unbearable on high gain settings.

- Duncan JB: tried to like it but it's not my thing. To my ears it was worst of both worlds - it did not have the open sound of a lower output pickup but at the same time it did not have the punch of a higher output pickup either.

- Duncan Vintage stacks: sounded nothing like true single coils to me.

- Duncan Alnico II Pro Neck humbucker: what a muddy mess.

- Duncan P-90 Hot neck: too muddy in the lows for a single coil pickup and felt weird to play. 

- PRS Dragon II: they sounded small, thin and brittle, and I tried them in two different guitars with the same results. I have absolutely no idea why any manufacturer would use them stock in any model. 

- PRS #7 Bass: what a muddy mess. See comment to Dragon II. PRS have better options in their pickup line than these.

- Lindy Fralin PAF humbucker set and Blues Specials strat set. Not that these are bad pickups but they do not live up anywhere near to the massive hype they are getting.

- TV Jones Magnatron set: Had them in a custom built hollowbody guitar which started out with a set of TV Jones Classics, the goal being to get the Gretsch sound. Turned out that it sounded more like a 335 which was not what I was going for with this guitar. Thought I could get the twang with the Magnatrons but all I got was a bright, brittle and harsh tone on both pickups which made the guitar feel very stiff and completely unmusical.

I am sure there are more but these just came to mind.

Cheers Stephan
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: Marshall Law on July 24, 2014, 10:44:03 PM
take the duncan 59 off my un impressed  list, with a magnet swap(roughcast A5 or a regular A2)  it is so much better. brought back the missing mids
Plus i would like to add i prefer the older duncans(MJ ones) to the newer made one?
add to the list of not impressed the crowd pleasers by guitar force.
I sold these a day later!  all hype!
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: Marshall Law on July 24, 2014, 10:47:18 PM
not really a big fan of those Seymour Duncan '59s. A bit too mid scooped for my tastes...
thats why they made my list but i fixed that by swapping the magnet out for a roughcast A5 or a A2)
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: KH Guitar Freak on July 26, 2014, 06:44:24 AM
I think I honestly prefer the Jazz neck that I have now. Running it with 250k volume and tone pots though. I might give the JB a shot again with 250k volume and tone pots. May not be the best pickup to me, but at least I have some variation in my lineup. If that doesn't work, I might swap it out for a Custom 5 maybe...  8)
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: slugworth on July 30, 2014, 12:08:08 PM
Somehow I missed this thread before, but since it's resurrected, here are some Dimarzios I've been pretty disappointed with. JMHO, YMMV and all of that...

Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: LPBII on August 03, 2014, 10:48:02 AM
Lace Sensors: Just so bland and lifeless.

Fred: A strange combination of compressed and weak.

Duncan Designed version of JB: A loud, inarticulate but thin, mess. Don't like the regular JB either but not for the same exact reasons.

Most ceramic mag pickups.  Many ceramics sound great with high gain, but that's not my only game.
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: mesa0131 on November 13, 2014, 01:16:49 AM
Seymour Duncan Pegasus 6, didnt have much to offer in the low end, fairly trebly. Cleans were nice, and coilsplit sounded very straty but under gain it wasnt the prog monster I expected it to be, it sounded more like an over processed 80s hair metal tone. Sold it right away. Apparently it was better suited for drop tunings.

Dimarzio Paf Joe, thought I liked it but it felt too squishy, and lacked in articulation for a neck pickup. Paf pro was a good replacement.

Air Norton S good placement on a 24 fret 
Guitar but bad on a 22 fret. Just mud, and doesnt balance out well with any bridge pickup.

Pre-B1 nothing special, doesnt have the twang but isnt that thick and powerful either. Forgetable.

Fs-1, same as the pre-B1

Fender SCN bridge pickup too bright, although does well under gain.

Area 61 thin and lacking in output, hard to pair well with bridge humbuckers

Air zone liked it but not enough output and had some sag/squishyness on higher gain. Assuming it was the air-ing.

Tonezone results vary on p/u height placement. Too much bottom end for most applications, might be good in alder body maple neck/board with floating trem?

Honorable mentions

Bareknuckle rebel yell set nice amount of power in the bridge, with an interesting vocal vowel sound, neck is warm and very paf like with added clarity.

Gibson 57 classic warm thick and great with tube distortion

Gibson burstbucker pro similar to the rebel yells but a little less output on the bridge.
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: darkbluemurder on November 13, 2014, 04:08:05 AM
Area 61 thin and lacking in output, hard to pair well with bridge humbuckers

I can see that they would be hard to pair with any humbucker higher than vintage (read "low") output. Thin - I guess that depends on the guitar and the rest of the equipment.

Cheers Stephan
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: satch_jr on November 13, 2014, 04:22:19 AM
Tone Zone: way too bassy even in a bright guitar
Air Norton: too smooth, kinda dampening all notes, didn't like it at all
Fred: kinda thin to my ears, but still like Satch tone (like to hear but not to have that tone with my guitar)
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: Fendercrazy on November 14, 2014, 01:40:44 AM
I can’t think of many I don’t like.  Here are some that just didn't work for me.   

EMG 81 & 85.  They just aren't for me.  Tried them in a few different guitars with just ok results.  They have a processed Digitech GSP5 tone to my ears (if that makes sense?).   I think their SA & T sets sound great.
   
Duncan Distortion.   I've owned two.  First one in the 80's by local music store recommendation. The salesman personally used one in his Explorer and it probably sounded great in that guitar.  Didn't work so good in my guitar.  It was to metallic sounding.  Harsh treble.  About six months later I swapped it out with a Super Distortion.  Much better!   I recently acquired a DD in a trade.  Installed it in an old 80's Kramer.  Same result.

Greg
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: Speeddemon on November 15, 2014, 05:40:55 AM
Air Norton: too smooth, kinda dampening all notes, didn't like it at all
Have you tried flipping it? It becomes a bit brighter and open sounding. I agree it's kinda smooth, but too me not too smooth.

Less than impressed with:
Seymour Duncan '59 Neck in a Les Paul Custom (with maple cap). Boomy, muddy, indistinct mids.
The GFS Vintage '59 Alnico PAF that replaced it (at 1/3rd of the price!) was much better.

Note: the '59N in my ESP Horizon NTII was a much better match, although it could use more juice. Replaced it with a Duncan Distortion neck, but after a few weeks, replaced its ceramic magnet with an Alnico 5 for more character. Pretty happy so far. Replaced tje bridge JB in that guitar with a Duncan Custom 5 (SH-14). Best move ever!  8) Love that pickup!

Seymour Duncan Jazz Neck (in a HSH superstrat, w/floating trem.) What a lifeless, hifi POS!
It made a Evo Neck sound vintag-y, juicy PAF like by comparison! (and that's saying something!)
Replaced it with a Duncan Distortion neck (hey...a theme!), couldn't be happier at the time. Sold that guitar eventually though.

DiMarzio Super Distorion S (in neck position (in a HS superstrat, w/floating trem.)); too big, bold, boomy.
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: greenlion on November 16, 2014, 08:22:28 AM
I tried really hard to like the AT-1. I bought it twice and tried it in 3 guitars. It sounds thin to me, like the entire tonal spectrum is piled up in the high mids. It worked better "in the mix" but I didn't like it when I was just playing.
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: satch_jr on November 17, 2014, 03:22:08 AM
Air Norton: too smooth, kinda dampening all notes, didn't like it at all
Have you tried flipping it? It becomes a bit brighter and open sounding. I agree it's kinda smooth, but too me not too smooth.
Yes I tried, but considering how smooth it was, the flipping was not enough. I must say I was very disappointed as this was the neck pup of Petrucci for years and though it would fit well the neck slot of my basswood body ibanez RG. But if fact, it was a fail...
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: slim_blues_boy on November 18, 2014, 03:52:25 AM
my list:
- Seymour Duncan JB, read a lot review about one of the most popular bridge pickup. but felt like generic pickup for me.

- Seymour Duncan Floor Custom 59' neck with Alnico IV & unpotted, read a lot good review about Alnico IV as something between Alnico II and Alnico V. well I quite like stock 59, but as we already knew, with stock Alnico V sometime it just too boomy in LP neck slot. I thought the Alnico IV will bring the best out of the 59 model. but it just didn't work for me. I'd prefer Alnico II in the 59 neck.

- Tonerider Alnico IV Classic. bought both Alnico II dan Alnico IV Classic, and again I like the Alnico II more. well perhaps I tend to be more Alnico II's guy, but sometime I also miss the attack and brightness from Alnico V ( that's why I like 36th PAF so much). and with what I read about Alnico IV as something between Alnico II and V, my expectation was high. maybe I just didn't get along with Alnico IV, or perhaps I was expecting wrong result from the Alnico IV.

Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: mesa0131 on December 12, 2014, 02:49:14 PM
So recently picked up a Seafoam Green Fender Roadworn with custom shop fat 50's.

Fender Fat 50's bridge. Aweful pickup, not fat and not even present when compared to the others, I thought maybe there was something wrong with it, it had this nasaly, thin out of phase sound, when use by itself. measured 6.5 kohm instead of the spec'd 6.2. Couldnt get any volume out of high strings at all, they almost disappeared. However neck and middle sound great, I just dont get it.
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: Speeddemon on December 22, 2014, 01:51:26 PM

Tonezone results vary on p/u height placement. Too much bottom end for most applications, might be good in alder body maple neck/board with floating trem?
Alas,
it came stock in my 2010 (or 9?) Charvel So Cal's bridge position. Had this loose low-end thingy going on; subtle, but I wanted something tighter still (and keeping the lovely harmonics), even though it's an alder bodied, FR-trem equipped, quartersawn maple neck (maple FB) guitar. That would say bright, right?
My pup swaps have been described on this forum ad nauseum, but long story short; there's a Norton in there now. Much better.
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: mesa0131 on December 23, 2014, 03:59:04 PM
I recently picked up a Suhr SSH+ bridge pickup after seeing a TZ/SSH+ comparison on YouTube, and it is a huge improvement over the TZ. No flub or overpower bass frequencies and still has all the power and harmonics you could want in a pickup. Great split sounds as well  8)
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: mertay on December 23, 2014, 04:59:07 PM
I recently picked up a Suhr SSH+ bridge pickup after seeing a TZ/SSH+ comparison on YouTube, and it is a huge improvement over the TZ. No flub or overpower bass frequencies and still has all the power and harmonics you could want in a pickup. Great split sounds as well  8)

I found the video, very different is how I would describe.

The ssh+ seems to have chopped highs with less high-mid.s compared to the TZ. It was thick and tighter than the TZ, to me this means a little better/stable cleans and better for powerchords compared to TZ. I'd say its more flexible but less shreddy than tonezone. Must mention TZ's main problem is being too shreddy for most who can't put in words.

Side note; If anyone using TZ has an eq pedal, try to increase around 2-3 khz and decrease around 6 khz basically giving a mid. boost right before the distortion. I like it both with and without the eq.

Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: Hugo77 on January 02, 2015, 05:32:42 AM
There've been quite a few over the years. Guess it greatly depends on who pays them in combination with what kind of guitar they're in and of course the amp. If you hear PG's demo of the Paf Masters and compare that to some other vids on the same pu's. Huge difference I'd say.

But I'd like to throw in a few I don't like.
* Seymour Duncan JBjr. Too thin sounding and it doesn't help if a "guitar-tech" puts in a 250k volume pot for a 3hb Strat. But even with a 500 it didn't live up to my expectations.
* SD Full Shred. used it ages ago, but very brief. Weird sounding pup, mids al around.
* DM Illuminators. To my ears sound absolutely horrible in an otherwise great instrument (MusicMan Majesty). Very thin. Bridge pu always makes me check if the Wha is on ;D So nasal. They're gonna be replaced in the near future with Transitions (I hope).
* EMG 57 but only for the amount of emi I get which is completely ridiculous. Sound is great though, much better than the 85 I have in there now.
* Also the pickups that were on a early Jem flower pattern ('89?) I owned. Put me off from DiMarzio's for two decades. I'm reliving that experience now with the Illuminators, haha. Karma is a bitch.
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: eggman on January 17, 2018, 12:02:10 PM
Howdy,

 Seymour Duncan SH-1 '59s. Difficult to dial in on my 335. Either too trebly or too bassy.
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: Orkhan Julfa on May 14, 2018, 09:03:02 PM
DiMarzio chopper.
I didn't find nothing like single coilish humbucker. Just very weak dark humbucker with lack of attack and overtones. May be I tried it with wrong guitar. Replaced it with VVHeavy Blues 2. And loved. It is in neck position and better matches with Evo 2.
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: darkbluemurder on May 15, 2018, 08:39:13 AM
DiMarzio chopper.
I didn't find nothing like single coilish humbucker. Just very weak dark humbucker with lack of attack and overtones. May be I tried it with wrong guitar. Replaced it with VVHeavy Blues 2. And loved. It is in neck position and better matches with Evo 2.

These are two very different pickups indeed. VV HB2 is great in the neck. Chopper is good in the bridge. I would not use it in the neck for the fear of it being too dark.

Cheers Stephan
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: Strangeman86 on May 22, 2018, 11:36:27 AM
The Breed.  In the context of my guitar, lots of flubby low end.  The Mo Joe wasn't much better, just sounded bland (but in my wife's guitar it sounds decent).
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: 27fretshred on June 17, 2018, 03:32:23 PM
I know I might be saying something that's sacrilegious cause I love Vai and his tone but I just could never get into the Evolutions. Actually bought an evo bridge not too long ago for the second time thinking I'd give it another shot, but nope. Still too shrill. Maybe it's because I don't have Vai's magic fingers.
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: 357mag on June 18, 2018, 06:24:14 PM
I have had zero luck with David Allen Pickups. The people on YouTube sound good with them but they have not worked in any guitar I had put them in.

Van Zandts are not that good either.
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: Orkhan Julfa on June 21, 2018, 07:22:34 AM
After a month of playing with DiMarzio Heavy Blues 2 disappointed with this pickup too. It is very weird pickup. On frets higher 12th this pickup sounds great. Very stratty and fat at the same time. With a good sustain. Below 12th fret it started sounded like wah pedal with toe rised up. Lack of highs and attack and muddy lows. So I returned to Virtual Solo for neck position. It matches better with Evo 2 than VVHeavy Blues 2 and Chopper.
Title: Re: Pickups that have left you less than impressed?
Post by: darkbluemurder on June 22, 2018, 10:05:04 AM
Very weird - my VV Heavy Blues 2 does not do that. But if it sounds great on higher notes and not so great on lower notes I would rule out a wiring error. Glad that the VSolo works for you in that application.

Cheers Stephan