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DimarzioForum.Com => The Pickup Place => Topic started by: Shooweri on June 15, 2018, 09:28:24 PM

Title: Ibanez PGM301 bridge pickup
Post by: Shooweri on June 15, 2018, 09:28:24 PM
Hi guys! Just joined the forum after reading the posts for years. Lots of useful info around and generally nice ppl.

I bought PGM301 model made in '08 couple years ago which I really enjoy to play. It has become my 'desert island' guitar since it's capable to cover a lot of different genres and playing styles. HSH pickup routing obviously helps with the 5-way switch with auto splits for both hums. I haven't found a perfect bridge pup yet though, have tried all sorts of things from Tone Zone, Paf Pro, JB, 59/Custom Hybrid and the Norton which is in it right now. I've settled to SSL-1 in the middle and Paf Joe in the neck with Alnico II magnet.

I usually play all kinds of rock from blues to shreddy metal but need something with medium output to balance with other pickups and to split well with the middle single. Clean tone should be nice as well so I'm not looking for high output or ceramic magnet pickups. The guitar itself is bright sounding with punchy mid range. Looking for pickup that has little more output and less high end than the Norton which sounds a bit too bright. I really liked the 59/Custom Hybrid in humbucker mode but hated it's split tones.

I'm really interested in the Perpetual Burn since it might be what I want in terms of overall tone. Feel free to suggest other Duncan/DiMarzio pups.
Title: Re: Ibanez PGM301 bridge pickup
Post by: Strangeman86 on June 15, 2018, 11:19:22 PM
Just off the top of my head the SD Pegasus and Custom (with an unoriented A5 swapped in; that is easily my favorite version of the Custom) might be worth a look.  Also, a lesser known option, the Mojotone PW Hornet is a fantastic pickup that, from my experience, would do what you're asking of it.  Just my two cents though.
Title: Re: Ibanez PGM301 bridge pickup
Post by: Shooweri on June 16, 2018, 04:19:21 AM
Thanks for the reply! I've been thinking about the Pegasus (which I happen to have in my Ibby 7-string RGD) and although it might be good choice overall tone and outputwise it sounds quite modern to me. I'm looking more vintagey sounding and feeling pickup for the PGM. Been wondering about the Custom too but after trying 59/custom hybrid and hating it's fat split coil tone I'm pretty sure I'm not trying it.

I look into PW Hornet, seems very interesting!
Title: Re: Ibanez PGM301 bridge pickup
Post by: DarthPhineas on June 16, 2018, 02:03:10 PM
The Perpetual Burn is a little flat/even EQ wise. A little dry, overall.  The Nazgul/Sentient/Pegasus line come across as a bit lifeless and pretty compressed sounding.

The Mojotone Hornet bridge is an excellent suggestion. Very versatile and a nice musical voice. Not too hot or too mild. The Hornet neck is designed very well on its own merit, as well as being the designed pairing for the Hornet bridge.

I believe Pablo Gilberto is known to run a Super D in parallel.
Title: Re: Ibanez PGM301 bridge pickup
Post by: buddroyce on June 16, 2018, 09:43:37 PM
Hello and welcome to the forum! Glad to see you've finally decided to join!

I love the PGM-301. Wanted one for a long time myself.

With regards to a new bridge pickup, I would probably go with the AT-1. While it's got less output than the Norton but I think tonally it might be what you're looking for moving from the Norton.


If not that, than the Breed I think would also make a good contender.
Title: Re: Ibanez PGM301 bridge pickup
Post by: Shooweri on June 16, 2018, 11:51:48 PM
I've used Nazgul in the past and it's just too compressed and has 'stiff' feel due to ceramic magnet. I considering the Perpetual Burn but don't want to pull the trigger on it just yet.

If the DiMarzio AT has less output than Norton I don't think I'm going with that. However, I haven't tried Breed and it seems very interesting. Even more so than the Duncan PB.

Thanks for all the recommendations so far and keep them coming!
Title: Re: Ibanez PGM301 bridge pickup
Post by: DarthPhineas on June 17, 2018, 11:24:11 AM
I've used Nazgul in the past and it's just too compressed and has 'stiff' feel due to ceramic magnet.

^^^  yep.  exactly.  ^^^

Perpetual Burn also has some of that stiff feel, which doesn't always need a certain magnet.  I was really wanting to like it and it was being sold to me by that company as being between a JB and a '59 Model, which it is not.  If it were described more accurately, I might have had expectations that would have been met. 


AT1 would be a good option.  From what I understand of the Breed, it would also be a contender.

also consider that you can balance the output by raising or lowering the pickups.
Title: Re: Ibanez PGM301 bridge pickup
Post by: Shooweri on June 17, 2018, 12:23:57 PM
I've adjusted heights of middle/neck to where I really like them. In comparison Norton sounds bland and weak in output, even playing with clean tone. It doesn't pair well with the middle/neck pickups and that's why I'm looking for a replacement. I might have same problems with AT.

After some research, as I've already tried the Tone Zone and it being way too compressed and muddy to my liking the Breed seems most logical option.
Title: Re: Ibanez PGM301 bridge pickup
Post by: 5150 on June 17, 2018, 03:02:32 PM
Ever consider looking for the DiMarzio made EVH/Axis pickups? They're hard to get a hold of but totally worth it IMHO.
Title: Re: Ibanez PGM301 bridge pickup
Post by: bluesman on June 17, 2018, 03:20:13 PM
Maybe I'm wrong but wouldn't the extra mids and lows on the AT-1 compensate for the 10% drop in output?
Title: Re: Ibanez PGM301 bridge pickup
Post by: Shooweri on June 18, 2018, 11:09:13 AM
I don't really see myself using EVH/Axis pup since I haven't seen one on sale in Finland. The reason I'm looking for DiMarzio/Duncan pickups is that they're easier to find here than most other brands.

Not sure about AT-1. Found a forum post where it was described as 'similar to JB with 250 pot'. I don't like JB tonally so the AT might not be what I'm looking for.

Finally, DiMarzio emailed me back and they're suggesting Satchur8. I know it's a new on market but have anyone had chance to compare it to Breed bridge?
Title: Re: Ibanez PGM301 bridge pickup
Post by: buddroyce on June 18, 2018, 02:20:51 PM
The EVH/Axis pickups actually are made by DiMarzio, except the only way to get them is to rip them out of an EBMM EVH/AXIS guitar. You find them on sale on ebay from time to time.

Almost forgot about the Satur8. Haven't tested one myself so I can't comment much on it. Based on specs though, it does sound like something that would fit the bill for you.
Title: Re: Ibanez PGM301 bridge pickup
Post by: Shooweri on June 19, 2018, 04:05:27 AM
I checked eBay and didn't find EVH/Axis on sale. I don't like buying pickups there since I need to pay sales taxes and customs fees if the seller is outside EU. That makes pickup purchases rather pricey from there.

I asked DiMarzio how Breed and Satchur8 compare: ''The Satchur8 is more open-sounding, with less emphasis on the mids and tighter lows.'' Very interesting, satchur sounds like a pickup I would really enjoy. Gonna buy one next month when I got some excess cash.
Title: Re: Ibanez PGM301 bridge pickup
Post by: corypheus on June 20, 2018, 02:08:01 AM
Hi,

While I’m a big fan of SatchTrack, and Fred and MoJoe and Satch tone in general - I don’t really like Satchur8, I personally think it would sound too big for you. In many ways it sounds like a big fat FRED. But to my ears it lacks a character, sounds a bit dull.

Instead, in your case I’d try a JB — but with 250 kohm load, if you haven’t already. It sounds just like you describe you want it to sound. However that’s with the 250 k load, with 500 it sounds bigger, louder, spikier and like a high output pickup, with 250 it’s more sort of medium output - perceived anyway. I know you said you don’t like it tonally but 250 kohm load makes it imho into a different pickup altogether.

I’m not trying to persuade you against the Satchur8 - you may just love it - but I’m simply saying getting a used JB shouldn’t be a problem, and you can score them cheap on evilbay (or your local used ads site) if you look long enough for one, then you can compare. And flip back one you like less. FWIW, I think you’ll like JB more, I know I do.

Cheers
Title: Re: Ibanez PGM301 bridge pickup
Post by: Shooweri on June 21, 2018, 07:46:17 AM
It's actually a good thing that you shared your opinion, made me thinking the whole thing from middle single point of view. It being SSL1, I need to be careful that bridge HB won't overpower it in terms of volume and output.

I am currently looking for a bunch of bridge HBs used, especially AT and Breed bridge. Mainly looking for DMZ HB since PGM has triangle-shape routings and Duncans won't fit without modification.

There's many JBs in sale locally but it's not what I'm after. If I would change pot to 250k it would change the tone of other pickups. Therefore looking for used AT.

Thank you all for your help!

Title: Re: Ibanez PGM301 bridge pickup
Post by: greenlion on June 21, 2018, 03:06:14 PM
Any bridge humbucker is going to overpower an SSL-1 single coil. If you did not like the 59/custom hybrid, I don't think you will like the AT-1 either. Those seemed similar to me, and I did not like either, although I do love what Andy Timmons does with his AT-1. Are you going to run the SSL-1 with a 500K pot? Its gonna be bright. Something like a 54pro or Area 61 would probably keep up with the humbucker better, and be hum cancelling.
Title: Re: Ibanez PGM301 bridge pickup
Post by: Shooweri on June 22, 2018, 07:16:06 AM
Yeah, SSL1 is bright with 500k pot but it's not problem. It sounds perfect to my liking and Paf Joe with A2 magnet has kinda YJM vibe. Those two pair perfectly but Norton seem to have less output and narrower frequency range.
Title: Re: Ibanez PGM301 bridge pickup
Post by: darkbluemurder on June 22, 2018, 10:10:59 AM
If you did not like the 59/custom hybrid, I don't think you will like the AT-1 either. Those seemed similar to me,

I have both pickups. Even though I have not tested them in the same guitar they sound completely different to me. I would describe the 59/custom hybrid as a louder PAF with a bit of P90 vibe thrown in whereas the AT-1 to me is definitely in the more midheavy category. So if you did not like the hybrid because it did not have enough midrange for you, the AT-1 would be a good choice.

Cheers Stephan
Title: Re: Ibanez PGM301 bridge pickup
Post by: greenlion on June 22, 2018, 04:10:03 PM
I would not say that the AT-1 and 59/custom are EQ'd the same, but to me they both had a gritty annoying feel to them. The 59/Custom had the bottom end of the Duncan 59, the puffed up mids of the Custom, and the shrill/thin/brittle highs of the 59 bridge with some grit to it, like the Duncan distortion has.
The AT-1 sounds thin to me, like the entire tonal spectrum is piled up in the high mids. I had to adjust the bass side screws raised a little and the pickup lowered. The treble side was the opposite. I had the screws flat with the bobbin and the pickup raised up on the treble side. If you try to do them evenly, you have this hard boomy bottom end and a weak thin treble end.

Title: Re: Ibanez PGM301 bridge pickup
Post by: DarthPhineas on June 22, 2018, 07:56:23 PM
If you did not like the 59/custom hybrid, I don't think you will like the AT-1 either. Those seemed similar to me,

I have both pickups. Even though I have not tested them in the same guitar they sound completely different to me. I would describe the 59/custom hybrid as a louder PAF with a bit of P90 vibe thrown in whereas the AT-1 to me is definitely in the more midheavy category. So if you did not like the hybrid because it did not have enough midrange for you, the AT-1 would be a good choice.

Cheers Stephan


Yeah

That hybrid is jangly and a little better for rhythm or lead work where you can get by with a little less “push”. Both coils come from models that are scooped in the mids.

The AT1 is a lot like a JB with a 250 pot. End of story.  Plenty of mids and a little beefy without getting tubby.
Title: Re: Ibanez PGM301 bridge pickup
Post by: corypheus on June 24, 2018, 01:36:06 PM
If you did not like the 59/custom hybrid, I don't think you will like the AT-1 either. Those seemed similar to me,

I have both pickups. Even though I have not tested them in the same guitar they sound completely different to me. I would describe the 59/custom hybrid as a louder PAF with a bit of P90 vibe thrown in whereas the AT-1 to me is definitely in the more midheavy category. So if you did not like the hybrid because it did not have enough midrange for you, the AT-1 would be a good choice.

Cheers Stephan


Yeah

That hybrid is jangly and a little better for rhythm or lead work where you can get by with a little less “push”. Both coils come from models that are scooped in the mids.

The AT1 is a lot like a JB with a 250 pot. End of story.  Plenty of mids and a little beefy without getting tubby.

I’d agree, which is why I told him to try to find the cheap route and get a used JB locally, which anyone can find virtually anywhere, and try it out with 250kohm pot, even if he wants to use 500 for rest of pickups he can solder in a resistor quick only for his bridge pickup, this way he’d get 95 % AT-1.

JB with 250 kohm load is also slightly quieter output-wise then an at-1 on 500 kohm load so would balance with singecoils a bit better (although I think both will overpower them anyway).

Title: Re: Ibanez PGM301 bridge pickup
Post by: Shooweri on June 25, 2018, 02:18:13 PM
Today I had an opportunity to visit local DiMarzio/Ibanez retailer in order to test out some pickups. Naturally the pups were in different guitar models so keep that in mind. They all had basswood body/maple neck and equipped with floating tremolo.

AT-1
Rich midrange and smooth highend made it sound rather thin for rhythm playing but it sounded pretty nice for leads. Had good amount of articulation so it was pleasure to shred on. Nice and juicy but overall just a little too smooth for my playing style.

Gravity Storm
Pretty similar to AT but with smoother highend, bit more bass and more output. Definitely a shredders pickup with a fluid sound and feel. Had very thick and focused midrange so it was nice for leadwork. Rhythm tone had more body but since it had more gain it sounded quite undefined to me.

Satchur8
Very different sound compared to mentioned above - very broad and big sounding pickup with pretty smooth highend, rich mids and good bass response. Pretty similar to AT in terms of output but with bigger and fuller sound and more articulation. Definitely most articulate of the bunch which made this my favourite. Broad rhythm tone with good articulation and fast tracking. This might be the one.

I'm still open for suggestions and opinions about which pickups I should test. I'll buy two pickups in next month (Sathur8 being one of them) and need an alternative if the satch is too big for me.
Title: Re: Ibanez PGM301 bridge pickup
Post by: DarthPhineas on June 26, 2018, 08:51:02 PM
I think you just need to pull the trigger on something and try it in your own rig. If you buy new, you can use the exchange program to swap it if you don’t like it.
Title: Re: Ibanez PGM301 bridge pickup
Post by: jazzfromhell on July 02, 2018, 02:47:47 AM
I think you just need to pull the trigger on something and try it in your own rig. If you buy new, you can use the exchange program to swap it if you don’t like it.
I believe the exchange program only applies if you're in the US, correct?

Title: Re: Ibanez PGM301 bridge pickup
Post by: jazzfromhell on July 02, 2018, 03:00:53 AM
To the OP:

I had the Norton in an Ibanez RG550 and I agree that its a bit thin and bright in basswood. I'd suggest you try the Transition which I have in a couple guitars now. It's everything I wanted the Norton to be but wasn't. Cleans up pretty well and roars and punches when you turn up the gain. It can handle pretty much anything style-wise and it will balance well with your other pickups.

Another one you could try is the Virtual Hot PAF. It pops up used quite often on ebay etc. It's slightly lower in output if you look at the numbers but it doesnt really feel that was under your fingers and it will balance perfectly with the SSL and PAF Joe. I'm not the only one who'd love to see DiMarzio bring that one back.
Title: Re: Ibanez PGM301 bridge pickup
Post by: DarthPhineas on July 03, 2018, 06:58:33 AM
I think you just need to pull the trigger on something and try it in your own rig. If you buy new, you can use the exchange program to swap it if you don’t like it.
I believe the exchange program only applies if you're in the US, correct?


The official site should have it detailed. No clue how it stands as of now. They have been known to get a little snotty about exchanges, but it is offered nonetheless. Also, some retailers might work with customers on exchanges and returns without having to get DMZ involved.
Title: Re: Ibanez PGM301 bridge pickup
Post by: DarthPhineas on July 03, 2018, 07:04:13 AM
Another one you could try is the Virtual Hot PAF. It pops up used quite often on ebay etc. It's slightly lower in output if you look at the numbers but it doesnt really feel that was under your fingers and it will balance perfectly with the SSL and PAF Joe. I'm not the only one who'd love to see DiMarzio bring that one back.


No doubt.

A little off topic, but.....  It’s silly that they discontinue products like that. If they are selling, let them be.

For that matter, even if they don’t sell.... consider the life span of the poorly named Full Shred from the Duncan Company. It withered for many years and has found a new audience the past several years.

Then there are models like the Al DiMeola set that gets blips of interest here and there. They offer it,  it it’s a special order. People have way too many options these days to jump through hoops.
Title: Re: Ibanez PGM301 bridge pickup
Post by: Shooweri on July 03, 2018, 08:41:37 AM
DMZ exchange policy is for US residents only. I've asked the local retailer but they don't offer any exchanges either. I live in Finland and therefore need to buy pickups in order to try them. It's not big deal, I need to spent my money somewhere anyway.

I believe that Transition has ceramic magnet. I usually don't like the way how ceramic magnet pups feel and sound under gain but might need to think this one. I'm certainly trying Satchur8 and Prepetual Burn first when they arrive.

I've heard good things about Virtual Hot PAFs but they are hard to find used in here. Definitely looking to find one on eBay.

This would be a lot easier if we wouldn't have so many products to choose from. It's really hard not to get lost in options.
Title: Re: Ibanez PGM301 bridge pickup
Post by: Shooweri on July 13, 2018, 01:26:48 PM
So I finally got the pickups I ordered. I received DiMarzio Satchur8, D Activator, Duncan Perpetual Burn and also second hand Full Shred, which was suggested on another forum. I took couple of days with each pickup to really know them sonically and also took time to tweak the pickup/pole piece heights. The pickups are in order I tested them.

-D Activator
Easily the brightest and had most output of the pickups I tried. It had pretty good metal tone, but wasn't versatile enough. Too compressed for my taste and had sharp pick attack that was accentuated by PGM's overall bright tone. It also overpowered the middle SSL1 too much. Sounded a bit bland and dull on clean amp.

-Satchur8
I was quite surprised how much this had output. The tone and feel was nice, a bit like a Norton but way bigger sounding, more low end and less mids. It had strong emphasis on low mid frequencies that gave it nice thump when palm muting and natural harmonics when sustaining single notes with high gain. Cleans had cool broad tone and it had nice split tone. It was too big and broad sounding compared to SSL1.

-Full Shred
I was pretty sure I wouldn't like this one, but had to try it. It had similar amount of output compared to Satchur but was a lot more focused and compressed. It had kinda weird pick attack and hollow mid-mids which made it super smooth to shred on. It proceeded to have same hollow mids and pick attack for rhythm playing and I wasn't pleased on it's tracking while playing riffs. On clean it sounded very thin and unnatural, even more so when split and it didn't work well with the middle single coil.

-Perpetual Burn
I felt most confident about this one as it shares so many qualities I look for in a bridge humbucker. Nice attack, present high mids, tight low end and dynamic for medium output pickup. It has similarities to Pegasus (that I've in my 7-string Ibby RGD) and therefore felt like home for me. Low end is pretty tight but present and mids have nice grind to them when playing rhythms. Pinch harmonics are easy to get and single notes are followed with natural overtones. This one is really close with Norton, both in output and overall tone, but has a tad less mids and less picky high end. I think this one's gonna be my new favourite.

As I tried different bridge pickups I found out that I didn't like the Paf Joe anymore. It had too sharp high end that got ice picky when playing with distortion. However it had nice clean tone and exceptional split tones, I needed to find a new neck humbucker. After couple days of research I narrowed my choice between DiMarzio Air Norton and Liquifire. I ended up getting the Liquifire, since it is a bit brighter than the AN. It works really well with the PB and doesn't overpower it that much and they match extremely well tonally.

Hope you find this info useful in your own tone chasing!
Title: Re: Ibanez PGM301 bridge pickup
Post by: 5150 on July 16, 2018, 11:30:31 AM
I should really give the Satur8 and Perpetual Burn a shot. They sound like pickups right up my alley.
Title: Re: Ibanez PGM301 bridge pickup
Post by: Angelectrico25 on January 01, 2019, 01:36:50 AM
When you say that Satur8 sound is too big and broad, you mean it in a good way? Just overpowered the SSL1? I'm looking for a bridge pickup that marches well with a Paf Pro on the neck, for some reason I don't like the Fred, and don't want to put another Paf Pro on the bridge, so I was thinking Norton, At-1 or Satur8. Your post helped me a bit, and since I'm going to buy a complete ser H-S-H I have the oportunity to choose a single coil for the middle position that matches well with the humbuckers