DiMarzio or Fluence

  • 36 Replies
  • 20238 Views

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

*

Offline HarlowTheFish

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • 168
  • 15
    • View Profile
Re: DiMarzio or Fluence
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2019, 02:16:08 PM »
You could use some kind of active preamp with your passive pickups to bring them up to level and impedance - I think Bartolini has one, so that might work for you.

*

Offline mysteryloaf

  • Newbie
  • *
  • 25
  • 0
  • On my way
    • View Profile
Re: DiMarzio or Fluence
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2019, 03:46:07 PM »
You could use some kind of active preamp with your passive pickups to bring them up to level and impedance

That's really not a bad option, actually.

But I think, since my guitar has a 3-way Gibson style switch, it would be trivial to wire it so the bridge middle/neck pups don't interact with the bridge, and that way I could skip the additional preamp for this guitar.

That, or I'll spring for one of the DiMarzio (or perhaps the Railhammer) passive bridge pickups and see how that works for me.

*

Offline HarlowTheFish

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • 168
  • 15
    • View Profile
Re: DiMarzio or Fluence
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2019, 04:36:39 PM »
If you have a 3-way toggle you could run a Duncan Blackouts preamp - it's its own pot, so you'd need 2 volumes or some way to attach it in your control cavity while it's rolled all the way up before running it to the switch.

*

Offline mysteryloaf

  • Newbie
  • *
  • 25
  • 0
  • On my way
    • View Profile
Re: DiMarzio or Fluence
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2019, 05:37:25 PM »
If you have a 3-way toggle you could run a Duncan Blackouts preamp

Considering that the Fluence has its own preamp baked into the pickup itself, I'd still have to wire up the passives to the Blackout pre and have the fluence bypass it, or i'd be in double-preamp land which sounds like a bad time. Right? Maybe I'm wrong tho.

I'd rather save 70 bucks and just wire the passives as regular passives tbh.

I wish I had an HH guitar, then I'd just go Fluence all the way. But I have what I have.

*

Offline HarlowTheFish

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • 168
  • 15
    • View Profile
Re: DiMarzio or Fluence
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2019, 09:19:26 PM »
If you have a 3-way toggle you could run a Duncan Blackouts preamp

Considering that the Fluence has its own preamp baked into the pickup itself, I'd still have to wire up the passives to the Blackout pre and have the fluence bypass it, or i'd be in double-preamp land which sounds like a bad time. Right? Maybe I'm wrong tho.

I'd rather save 70 bucks and just wire the passives as regular passives tbh.

I wish I had an HH guitar, then I'd just go Fluence all the way. But I have what I have.

Passive into Blackouts pre, blackouts pre and Fluence into switch.

Yeah it's kind of a pain and more expensive than going for either/or but a preamp is really the only way to make them play nice together.

*

Offline mysteryloaf

  • Newbie
  • *
  • 25
  • 0
  • On my way
    • View Profile
Re: DiMarzio or Fluence
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2019, 12:37:54 AM »
Passive into Blackouts pre, blackouts pre and Fluence into switch.

Yeah, honestly I'd love to think I could get the two pickup families to work together properly rather than cordon them off from each other. I'd love to hear what the Fluence Modern bridge with Tone Zone S sound like together.

But what happens when two pre-amped signals meet each other at the switch? You're talking about wiring two preamps in parallel? Can you even do that without a mixer?

I think I'd have to run the Fluence into the Blackout Pre. Run them in series.

I feel like this is where it gets dicey, and it's what made me want to look into passive high-output bridge pickups in the first place. Ultimately I feel like that would be the path of least resistance.

*

Offline HarlowTheFish

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • 168
  • 15
    • View Profile
Re: DiMarzio or Fluence
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2019, 01:54:23 AM »
Passive into Blackouts pre, blackouts pre and Fluence into switch.

Yeah, honestly I'd love to think I could get the two pickup families to work together properly rather than cordon them off from each other. I'd love to hear what the Fluence Modern bridge with Tone Zone S sound like together.

But what happens when two pre-amped signals meet each other at the switch? You're talking about wiring two preamps in parallel? Can you even do that without a mixer?

I think I'd have to run the Fluence into the Blackout Pre. Run them in series.

I feel like this is where it gets dicey, and it's what made me want to look into passive high-output bridge pickups in the first place. Ultimately I feel like that would be the path of least resistance.
The two preamps running in parallel don't affect each other - the Blackouts pre takes high-impedance passive pickup signals and converts them to low-impedance active signals (it does some other stuff too but for your purposes that's the part that matters). The mixer in this case is the switch - either pickup at 100%, or both in parallel (at a percentage corresponding to the output of each pickup). Wiring them in series would be problematic - in parallel they don't really interact.
Dicey, yes. It's an unconventional setup that most people don't go through the trouble of dealing with, which is why there's no plug-and-play or specialized hardware to make it easy, but it's not impossible or finicky by any standard - there's some hoops to jump through, but as long as you understand the problems you'll have, it's easy to work with.
The Bartolini Adjustable Gain Buffer https://bartolini.net/product/agb/ is probably the easiest - it'll convert your signal to low-impedance and let you balance the output with an active pickup. It's also meant to be put inside the instrument, not as one of the controls.
The Blackouts Preamp is meant to take a full set of passive pickups and convert them to active pickups - it does some stuff tonally, bumps up the output, adds compression, and has a specific wiring scheme to increase noise cancellation with humbuckers. It can be wired to do it, and I think might tonally make the pickups mesh a little better, but it's more of a hassle with mounting and stuff.

*

Offline mysteryloaf

  • Newbie
  • *
  • 25
  • 0
  • On my way
    • View Profile
Re: DiMarzio or Fluence
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2019, 01:46:24 PM »
The mixer in this case is the switch - either pickup at 100%, or both in parallel ... The Bartolini Adjustable Gain Buffer is probably the easiest... The Blackouts Preamp might tonally make the pickups mesh a little better.

Well I'll definitely keep this trick up my sleeve and float it by the guitar tech who will do the work of wiring it together. Thanks for explaining it.

I'll admit I'm not enthusastic about this kind of setup. I still think it sounds like an unnecessarily expensive and trouble-prone venture and it's not clear to me if it would be worth the hassle.

Sounds interesting tho.

*

Offline RayBarbeeMusic

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 1208
  • 57
    • View Profile
Re: DiMarzio or Fluence
« Reply #23 on: October 23, 2019, 11:53:08 AM »
I bought a used set that came with the Fluence set with the backplate, push/pull fat thing, etc. 

My take is that they sound ok.  Not better than that.  Not as good as Areas.  The big thing I didn't like though is that you can hear the white noise from the preamp even under very moderate overdrive/volume situations.  That's a deal breaker for me on them.  They don't hum like a single, but they hiss like and old tape deck.

*

BluesJam

  • Guest
Re: DiMarzio or Fluence
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2019, 03:45:31 PM »
Fluence pickups and DiMarzio’s are completely different builds.  Passive pickups, good bad or indifferent age over time which creates a vintage vibe.  I’m not sure if the Fluence pickups will age well, if at all.  Only time will tell about their durability.  Personally, I think that would be a great You Tube video.... durability of pickup types  in various climates and conditions.

In addition, resale value is also a consideration.  In most cases, a vintage DiMarzio pickup definitely holds or exceeds its original price.

*

Offline mysteryloaf

  • Newbie
  • *
  • 25
  • 0
  • On my way
    • View Profile
Re: DiMarzio or Fluence
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2019, 03:25:21 PM »
The big thing I didn't like [about the Fluence] though is that you can hear the white noise from the preamp even under very moderate overdrive/volume situations.  That's a deal breaker for me on them.  They don't hum like a single, but they hiss like and old tape deck.

Wow, that's... exactly what I was hoping to avoid. All the reviews I've seen/read so far claim they are dead quiet. I wonder if that's endemic to the whole line, just the singles, or if its unique to you...? Anyway thanks for the heads up.

I’m not sure if the Fluence pickups will age well, if at all.  Only time will tell about their durability. 

In addition, resale value is also a consideration.

Well, durability is a very legit concern for me. But aging? The Fluence's difference is chiefly in how the coil is constructed (it's a PCB rather than wire wraps). But they're still, at the end of the day, "wire coils surrounding a magnetic core." And if I understand correctly, it's the magnets that age, not so much the coils? So they ought to age the way normal magnets age because that component isn't fundamentally different.

But resale is deffo a consideration for me. If I buy a set of Fluences and don't like them, I imagine it would be harder to resell due to generally lower demand. DiMarzios are a tried and true brand that many ppl trust. Fluence are new and shiny... but only have a cult following at this moment.

The Blackouts Preamp is meant to take a full set of passive pickups and convert them to active pickups - it does some stuff tonally, bumps up the output, adds compression, and has a specific wiring scheme to increase noise cancellation with humbuckers. It can be wired to do it, and I think might tonally make the pickups mesh a little better...

What I'm thinking now is: I'm going to try a passive pickup build w DiMarzios in the middle and neck positions, and try out a Railhammer in the bridge, and maybe spring for a preamp if I can get one that will work with 3 pickups... and if I can toggle it on and off.

I like the idea of the Blackouts Preamp since it adds a more aggressive tone etc. But it seems like a bypass toggle is difficult to set up, and also I'm not sure it'll be able to handle 3 humbuckers.

The more I work through what I want and understand the options out there, the more I feel like Goldilocks, wanting the porridge that's juuuust right. lol

*

BluesJam

  • Guest
Re: DiMarzio or Fluence
« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2019, 10:19:59 PM »
Snake Oil marketing is real.  Don’t feed into it.  Save your money and integrity and move on from the Fluence. 

*

Offline mysteryloaf

  • Newbie
  • *
  • 25
  • 0
  • On my way
    • View Profile
Re: DiMarzio or Fluence
« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2019, 11:34:57 PM »
Snake Oil marketing is real.  Don’t feed into it.  Save your money and integrity and move on from the Fluence.

I realize you're trying to help me, but that seems needlessly harsh to imply anything about my integrity, or that Fishman is marketing an inferior product. I couldn't say either way since I've never owned them for a long period of time. That's partly why I asked for opinions, tho I do prefer opinions backed by experience, and not conjecture. No offense.

All I know about Fishman is I briefly a played Fluence Modern Bridge, and it the sound really impressed me at the time, enough to start asking questions around here. And that's what matters to me: the Fluence line has an appealing sound to my ear, as well as some other advantages, and some disadvantages.

In this case, I think the cons may outweigh the pros for the current project. Because of their limited selection for the pickup routes/form factor I have to work with on this guitar, going with a Fluence Modern Bridge would mean an imperfect solution: 1) I'd be compromising my vision for this guitar by buying the Fluence Singles and ending up with sounds I don't actually want. Or, 2) the solution to using 1 active pickup and 2 other passive pickups seems expensive, convoluted, and unwieldy.

As I sort my options out (with your and everyone else's help) I've tried to share my thoughts and findings here in case it helps anyone.

On that note, thanks again for your input so far.

*

Offline RayBarbeeMusic

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • 1208
  • 57
    • View Profile
Re: DiMarzio or Fluence
« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2019, 02:50:00 PM »
"or if its unique to you...?"

It's not. 

They are quiet in terms of induced hum; but any active circuitry will add noise.  I found the noise added here unacceptable when added to the fact that Areas are also quiet, IMO sound better, and do not hiss.

*

Offline mysteryloaf

  • Newbie
  • *
  • 25
  • 0
  • On my way
    • View Profile
Re: DiMarzio or Fluence
« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2019, 03:13:04 PM »
"or if its unique to you...?"

It's not. 

They are quiet in terms of induced hum; but any active circuitry will add noise.  I found the noise added here unacceptable when added to the fact that Areas are also quiet, IMO sound better, and do not hiss.

Understood, thanks for clarifying. Preamps do indeed add self-noise... but I'm honestly surprised at your report of such intense self-noise under moderate gain from the Fishmans. So far you are the first person I have seen bring that up, and I haven't noticed hiss in the audio examples available online. Maybe the self-noise wouldn't be a deal-breaker for me, hypothetically speaking. But I'll keep an ear out for that going forward.

As for the areas: I have some Areas in my PJ Bass and I love the way they sound. I can imagine that the strat pickups are on a similar level of awesome.