De-airing Dimarzio pups??? at-1 vs. axis bridge w/pics and ohm readings

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Offline Defender2000

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Within the next few weeks I'm gonna be dissecting and modifying the at-1 and tone zone.

The rumor is that the at-1 is the same as the axis bridge with air technology and virtual vintage. So I'm gonna do a little experimenting and try it out on my axis. I'll provide pics and sound clips with my findings.

Before I start pulling pickups apart, how easy is it to remove the slug poles? Is it just as easy as using a punch and driving them out? I've been doing a lot of reading and I can't really find a clear cut answer. A lot of people claiming that they've done it, but no pictures or descriptions of their methods.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2012, 04:37:58 PM by Defender2000 »

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Offline jmcorey

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Re: De-airing Dimarzio pups???
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2012, 06:21:10 PM »
De-airing is one thing.

De-VVing is another.  I haven't done either, though both Luigi and Ed Hunter have de-aired. 

If you try it, please post here how it goes!!

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Offline Defender2000

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Re: De-airing Dimarzio pups???
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2012, 06:26:58 PM »
I am well aware of the difference between air and VV. And I'll definitely get some pics!

By the time I'm done, theoretically I'll end up with an axis bridge and an air zone.

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Luijo

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Re: De-airing Dimarzio pups???
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2012, 07:46:10 PM »
Just punch the polepieces out carefully not to scratch them. I do it from the bottom or inside since they are already exposed and easier to push out.
Be careful with the wires, they are not as sturdy as they used to be.
To fill the gap I use a metal spacer from broken PUs.

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Offline jmcorey

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Re: De-airing Dimarzio pups???
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2012, 10:00:01 PM »
I am well aware of the difference between air and VV. And I'll definitely get some pics!

By the time I'm done, theoretically I'll end up with an axis bridge and an air zone.

Sorry, I meant to say that de-airing is straightforward, while de-VVing not so much.

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Offline jmcorey

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Re: De-airing Dimarzio pups???
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2012, 10:01:19 PM »
Be careful with the wires, they are not as sturdy as they used to be.

Which wires do you mean?

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Luijo

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Re: De-airing Dimarzio pups???
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2012, 10:15:35 PM »
The start/finish wires of the coils, where they connect with the color coded wires. They are somewhat exposed when you disassemble a PU.

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Offline Defender2000

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Re: De-airing Dimarzio pups???
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2012, 03:00:50 PM »
Here is what I've got so far. This first pic is the at-1 disassembled. It has the rubber o-rings for the air technology. The slugs seem like it would be pretty easy to tap out. And you can clearly see the 6 metal VV screws. According to the Dimarzio FAQ, they are headless screws. I'm not sure which approach I want to take, but I'm thinking drilling them and using some easy outs would be the best method. Unless anybody else has a different approach?



This next one is the gut shot of my Axis bridge pickup. I didn't disassemble the pickups any further than what you see here.



This is all I have for now. I'm still waiting to get a tone zone before I go any further.

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Luijo

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Re: De-airing Dimarzio pups???
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2012, 03:28:41 PM »
Did you get resistances readings before starting this whole operation?

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Offline Defender2000

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Re: De-airing Dimarzio pups???
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2012, 03:37:22 PM »
I haven't really started any operation yet. Just simply took it apart to see exactly what I'm up against. I will provide resistance readings of everything when I start getting into it.

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Offline Defender2000

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Re: De-airing Dimarzio pups???
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2012, 04:06:13 PM »
Alright....I went ahead and got some resistance readings on the pickups. The at-1 has fewer windings than the axis bridge. Close, but not the same. I got readings from start to finish on each coil and then got a reading of total resistance of the pickups. And just for the hell of it, I got readings off of the axis neck pickup too.

at-1
red to black 8.12 k
white to green 8.11 k
red to green  16.21 k

axis bridge
red to black 8.85 k
white to green 8.91 k
red to green 17.77 k

axis neck
red to black 7.31 k
white to green 7.45 k
red to green 14.56 k

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Luijo

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Re: De-airing Dimarzio pups??? at-1 vs. axis bridge w/pics and ohm readings
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2012, 04:44:33 PM »
The big difference in readings between those two PUs makes me wonder if those rumors are true...it's like 10%!

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Offline Defender2000

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Re: De-airing Dimarzio pups??? at-1 vs. axis bridge w/pics and ohm readings
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2012, 12:19:39 AM »
Well....rumors are just that....rumors. Dimarzio has the at-1 listed as the closest commercially available replacement to the axis pickup. 10% is quite a difference, I'm not sure what tolerances dimarzio is working with in production, but I'm willing to bet it's well within 10%. If anybody out there can provide some resistance readings on their pickups, it would be much appreciated. Just wish I had a way to get inductance and capacitance readings on the coils. Wish I could get some consistent millivolt readings too.

I'm still thinking about going ahead with the mods and comparing the 2 pickups, just waiting for funds to get a tone zone to swap parts with. Even though they aren't the same pickups, after modding the at-1 I'm sure it will sound great and very reminiscent of the axis bridge pickup.

I'm also still trying figure out the best approach for removing the VV poles. Any ideas?

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Offline Marshall Law

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Re: De-airing Dimarzio pups??? at-1 vs. axis bridge w/pics and ohm readings
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2012, 07:26:58 AM »
Just to stick my two cents in i have a axis bridge pu that read at 16.8K and a AT-1 at 17.1K
are you using a F-spaced AT-1 to compare? if not the resistance will be lower on the regular spaced AT-1. I dont recomend tryin to take out the V V slugs? I didnt even try since they are not screws or hex heads but flat poles? taking these out will increase the highs and i found it not necessary to get close to the axis tone.

Take this with a grain of salt but i recently heard from a guy at who works at dimarzio that the axis NECK pup is just two norton 7K coils and the axis bridge is just two tone zone 8.5K coils(screw side)
I think i can believe this ;)
« Last Edit: March 12, 2012, 07:33:04 AM by ed hunter »

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Toshiro

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Re: De-airing Dimarzio pups??? at-1 vs. axis bridge w/pics and ohm readings
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2012, 12:39:47 PM »

Take this with a grain of salt but i recently heard from a guy at who works at dimarzio that the axis NECK pup is just two norton 7K coils and the axis bridge is just two tone zone 8.5K coils(screw side)
I think i can believe this ;)


So basically, a Norton/ToneZone setup without the Dual Resonance(which I hate anyway). LOL